Look Pro: The Hunchbacks of Notre V

The flat back position is perhaps the greatest lie ever told in sport, provided you ignore any of the racing we’ve seen in the last decade or two.

It is possible, I suppose, that when we talk about a flat back, what we really mean is that on an elementary level, all curves are really just a series of straight segments connected at an angle; while a rider’s back may look arched, it really is flat in an existential sense.

Because no one really rides with a flat back. Even riders who famously rode with a flat back, like Greg LeMond, actually rode with only the upper portion of their backs flat. In fact, the only rider I can think of who was as happy as a Texan in an Amgen factory while riding with a truly flat back was The Gypsy himself. It bears mentioning, however, that a search through the Velominati Archives shows only intermittent evidence of him riding with a truly flat back.

If you’ve ever tried to get your back completely flat, you’ll have noticed that it feels awful. Your shoulders tense up, your hips roll forward. It certainly doesn’t do your bits any favors. As you try to accelerate, your shoulders and hips tense up even more in an effort to keep the back as flat as possible.

There is a very simple explanation for this: The V abhors a straight line; it requires smooth curves in order to flow freely from the various V-Receptacles spread throughout your body and into the guns where it is processed and converted into Monumental Devastation.

As you pursue the V-Locus, keep the following points in mind:

  1. The key to a Magnificent Stroke is to find a tension-neutral position on the bike.
  2. Let your hips find their natural position. It will likely be somewhat vertical, causing your lower back to arch.
  3. Tension is the enemy. Relax your shoulders, elbows, hips, and neck. Even relax your fingers if you find them trying to strangle the bars.
  4. Like a Jedi uses the Force, let the power of The V flow from your arms through your lower back and hips, and down into the cannons.
  5. The harder you are hammering and the closer you are to achieving nuclear V-ission, the more important it becomes to keep your back and shoulders relaxed; you are wasting precious energy on staying tense. Use that energy to fire the the guns instead.

And yes, Cycling is hell for your posture. If that’s what you’re after, take up yoga.

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115 Replies to “Look Pro: The Hunchbacks of Notre V”

  1. Woah, just noticed LeMan’s bars in photo #6. What’s going on with those? They have a seriously long and pronounced curve to the drop section.

    Also, not again yoga and I know it would be great for me. I just have trouble being so calm for that long. And, there are plenty of other things I could do to help myself out. I’ve traveled to Vietnam and most mornings you can find flocks of older women in the local park just kind of dancing and moving to a boombox. Kind of like freestyle meets Tai Chi. Just doing that – moving, swinging my arms, etc. helps, since I tend to either do heavy exercise (cycling or soccer) or be totally sedentary. Just getting up from my desk throughout the day to move and swing about helps. Jumping rope is even better.

    Maybe one day soon I’ll find the inner peace to commit to yoga…

  2. Oh, and every time we get onto such topics and old bike photos come up…I thank my lucky stars that I have an older steel bike. They just get me far, far more jazzed up than modern carbon. And, I get to feel some sort of connection to the history of an awesome sport that I’m still relatively new to!

  3. Pozzato and Ballan both are pretty close to table flat in this pic from the 2012 Ronde. Not that it helped them any in the finale.

  4. @Marko One shot that day (slideshow) running across a field together gave the impression of the Beatles Abbey Road (photo) with extra members.

  5. @unversio

    @Marko One shot that day (slideshow) running across a field together gave the impression of the Beatles Abbey Road (photo) with extra members.

    That was the following Sunday during Roubaix. Good shot though as well and fun times. 5 minutes later we met Van Summie’s VMH.

  6. Flat backs, great photos, VMH yoga! (I can watch yoga all day…)

    Superb article, and great comments so far. Especially now that I am commenting…

  7. @pistard

    So, I can stop studying my position in shop window reflections? Might cut down on the crashes.

    No, do not stop doing that. It is one of life’s little pleasures to catch a glimpse of how badass you look as you whip by a window. Subsequent crash and all.

  8. @frank

    @pistard

    So, I can stop studying my position in shop window reflections? Might cut down on the crashes.

    No, do not stop doing that. It is one of life’s little pleasures to catch a glimpse of how badass you look as you whip by a window. Subsequent crash and all.

    Chicks dig scars…

  9. @brett

    My friend Rachel has one of the flattest backs I’ve seen…

    Rad. But that’s not a flat back. That’s a perfect V-Arch, in fact.

    @James

    @frank

    Can you disclose your core strength regimen?

    Its not much, but it helps a lot. I’m naturally pretty flexible (oddly enough) in just the right ways for cycling; I’m completely inflexible in other ways.

    All I do is lay on my back while watching TV and do three sets of 50 leg lifts; I lift my legs from just above the ground all the way up to 90 degrees. To start with, I’d keep my legs together, but after a month of that I started to hold my feet about shoulder-width apart when I lift them up – its much harder that way. I finish each set by holding my legs a little bit above the ground for a count of 15 seconds.

    This has two benefits: it seems to work the lower back and the abdomen, and it doesn’t require me to take out time for an indoor workout, which is something I detest. Basically, I do these without noticing that I’m doing it that much.

  10. @SimonH

    @Giles

    @Marcus ditto. Do we go to the same studio? I was about to make the same comment, both the instructors I have are pretty damn hot. I’ve been doing Pilates for over a year now, the benefits to a 40+ who spends and hour or two on the bike and 8 hours at a desk most of the week, have been obvious (I’ve dropped the bars, raised the saddle because I can and it’s now more comfortable).

    Also an advocate for Pilates. I started in February and have found it has helped me heaps, far better than any gym work has ever done.

    Since I started I have dropped 2cm of spacers from under my eight degree stem and flipped it down. My saddle has come up a touch , maybe a cm, and I find that I am much more comfortable riding for four hours plus (always rides of 100k and more) and spend most of my time in the drops, only changing to the tops / hoods when climbing or chewing my stem.

    Being 6’3″³ tall I have suffered with back pain since teenage, two serious car accidents have also not helped either. I don’t even so much as get a twinge anymore. I find that I sit upright all the time, don’t slouch and feel this helps me greatly on the bike. Rather than feel like my arms are supporting my bodyweight on the bike it is my mid section / core mostly fulfilling that role.

    I think it is the increased flexibilty in my hamstrings / quads that has brought on this change rather than increased spine flexibilty but it all helps.

    I will soon be dragging my knuckles on the floor.

    Being 6’3″ and slouchy, this is what I’m hoping more core work does for me (minus the dragging knuckles and car wrecks)

  11. @VeloVita I’m of similar build and try to do this routine periodically  if I get lazy before very long my back will let me know it’s time for some more reps: http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/training-fitness/core?page=0,1

    Although the idea of proper pilates is intriguing.

  12. @minion

    @Marcus

    @strathlubnaig

    agree

    @frank

    @Marko
    Whilst I shouldnt be one to throw stones when it comes to cautioning on offensive comments, c’mon, go easy on the priest/kiddy calls – you can do better (but I cant). Why not just say, “as happy as Minion and Marcus at a sheep shearing and sharing convention”.

    Or “As happy as Minion and Marcus at Foxy Boxing when it’s guest’s night and you get to smash each other wearing women’s lingerie”

    Photographic proof that you also swing for cows.

  13. @Deakus

    Strangely though with two prolapsed discs and 4 dehydrated ones and years of back pain, road cycling has actually “fixed” my back! I used to wake very sore every day of the year and take about an hour to warm up, my back would “go” at least twice a year necessitating 3 weeks or so on crutches…………start cycling again….pain free, back never slips any more…go figure? I put it down to strengthen the core which I guess is why Pilates and Yoga feature so heavily in this type of conversation. The issues with my back cannot be “fixed” it is just the muscles and ligaments around the injuries have strenthened to compensate.

    My dad suffers from something similar and cycling fixes it as well; his theory is that cycling builds up the muscles along your spine and keeps your vertebrae from squishing the discs. 

  14. @alexei

    Pozzato and Ballan both are pretty close to table flat in this pic from the 2012 Ronde. Not that it helped them any in the finale.

    That photo does a great job to perpetuate the Myth of the Flat Back. Have a good look and you’ll see the upper portion of their back may be fairly flat, but their lower backs are carved sharply to get there. Especially Ballan; it takes him until about mid-back to get flattish.

    That’s a beautiful position he’s got, though.

  15. @Marko

    @unversio

    @Marko One shot that day (slideshow) running across a field together gave the impression of the Beatles Abbey Road (photo) with extra members.

    That was the following Sunday during Roubaix. Good shot though as well and fun times. 5 minutes later we met Van Summie’s VMH.

    Let me convert this into command-line syntax for you for any event or photo taken during Keepers Tour:

    That was * during *. Good shot though and fun times. V minutes later we *.

  16. @frank

    @minion

    @Marcus

    @strathlubnaig

    agree

    @frank

    @Marko
    Whilst I shouldnt be one to throw stones when it comes to cautioning on offensive comments, c’mon, go easy on the priest/kiddy calls – you can do better (but I cant). Why not just say, “as happy as Minion and Marcus at a sheep shearing and sharing convention”.

    Or “As happy as Minion and Marcus at Foxy Boxing when it’s guest’s night and you get to smash each other wearing women’s lingerie”

    Photographic proof that you also swing for cows.

    I’m not fucking Welsh you sick fucker. That’s just disgusting.

  17. @frank

    @Deakus

    Strangely though with two prolapsed discs and 4 dehydrated ones and years of back pain, road cycling has actually “fixed” my back! I used to wake very sore every day of the year and take about an hour to warm up, my back would “go” at least twice a year necessitating 3 weeks or so on crutches…………start cycling again….pain free, back never slips any more…go figure? I put it down to strengthen the core which I guess is why Pilates and Yoga feature so heavily in this type of conversation. The issues with my back cannot be “fixed” it is just the muscles and ligaments around the injuries have strenthened to compensate.

    My dad suffers from something similar and cycling fixes it as well; his theory is that cycling builds up the muscles along your spine and keeps your vertebrae from squishing the discs.

    When my sciatic was at its worst back in June I couldn’t walk from my bed to the ensuite crapper in my house but I could ride for hours relatively pain free – just so long as I wasn’t daft enough to get out of the saddle heading up hill.

  18. @frank

    @Deakus

    Strangely though with two prolapsed discs and 4 dehydrated ones and years of back pain, road cycling has actually “fixed” my back! I used to wake very sore every day of the year and take about an hour to warm up, my back would “go” at least twice a year necessitating 3 weeks or so on crutches…………start cycling again….pain free, back never slips any more…go figure? I put it down to strengthen the core which I guess is why Pilates and Yoga feature so heavily in this type of conversation. The issues with my back cannot be “fixed” it is just the muscles and ligaments around the injuries have strenthened to compensate.

    My dad suffers from something similar and cycling fixes it as well; his theory is that cycling builds up the muscles along your spine and keeps your vertebrae from squishing the discs.

    Was told the same by my physio. My bike last “went” about 8-9 years ago, the physio instructed me to get back on the bike as soon as I could without fainting in pain. I did and have never looked back.

  19. @Nate

    @VeloVita I’m of similar build and try to do this routine periodically if I get lazy before very long my back will let me know it’s time for some more reps: http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/training-fitness/core?page=0,1

    Although the idea of proper pilates is intriguing.

    Yep, I’ve got that routine saved in my email.  I’ve been doing a combination of similar exercises mixed with a few select yoga poses that  stretch out my lower back (which is quite tight in the morning since I injured it last year), hamstrings, hips and quads.

  20. The best saying i have heard about one’s core and cycling is that strong legs without a strong core is like firing a cannon from a canoe.

  21. @Giles

    @frank

    @Deakus

    Strangely though with two prolapsed discs and 4 dehydrated ones and years of back pain, road cycling has actually “fixed” my back! I used to wake very sore every day of the year and take about an hour to warm up, my back would “go” at least twice a year necessitating 3 weeks or so on crutches…………start cycling again….pain free, back never slips any more…go figure? I put it down to strengthen the core which I guess is why Pilates and Yoga feature so heavily in this type of conversation. The issues with my back cannot be “fixed” it is just the muscles and ligaments around the injuries have strenthened to compensate.

    My dad suffers from something similar and cycling fixes it as well; his theory is that cycling builds up the muscles along your spine and keeps your vertebrae from squishing the discs.

    Was told the same by my physio. My bike last “went” about 8-9 years ago, the physio instructed me to get back on the bike as soon as I could without fainting in pain. I did and have never looked back.

    That should be “Back” not bike – the wonders of iPad autocorrect…

  22. The absolute best thing for cycling is your “core”, this goes for almost any sport and its as simple as sit-ups and planks, equally important is your ass that’s as easy as squats and lunges, do it, it works!

  23.  

    @frank To your point, here’s my racing bike from 1989.

     

    And here’s my current resurrection…

     

  24. @Jeff in PetroMetro

    Nice rides there!

    Hope you don’t mind, I had a play with your steed’s to compare then and now. I do this to check transferring set ups from one to another. The only thing is that if one bike is leaning over more you get distortion.

    Looks like the the saddle to bar drop the same, Mercian higher than the Look. Crank arm length may even this out?

    It’s only for fum comparison for you. You know you feel comfy on both.

  25. @sthilzy Wow what a useful comparison…I would have thought there are loads of ppl out there who have a couple of bikes of different geometries who would be really interested in a comparison like that…

    How do you do it?

  26. @sthilzy

    @Jeff in PetroMetro

    Nice rides there!

    Hope you don’t mind, I had a play with your steed’s to compare then and now. I do this to check transferring set ups from one to another. The only thing is that if one bike is leaning over more you get distortion.

    Looks like the the saddle to bar drop the same, Mercian higher than the Look. Crank arm length may even this out?

    It’s only for fum comparison for you. You know you feel comfy on both.

    That’s a cool analysis!  The pics were taken at different angles.  I was below the Mercian.  I was above the LOOK.  And I used two different cameras, so the distances away from the bikes are pretty different.  I’ll shoot a pic of the LOOK at the exact spot that I shot the Mercian.  I’ll do the same with my Cervelo, too.  I’ll post all that over at The Bikes and try to get each bike lined up.

    i sit up on the LOOK just a little bit more than on any other bike these days.  As I get older, sitting up feels a bit more comfortable.

  27. @Marcus

    The best saying i have heard about one’s core and cycling is that strong legs without a strong core is like firing a cannon from a canoe.

    Amazingly, that seems to be a common-enough saying that when you google “cannon in a canoe” you get a bunch of pictures of people doing yoga.

    And this.

  28. @piwakawaka

    The absolute best thing for cycling is your “core”, this goes for almost any sport and its as simple as sit-ups and planks, equally important is your ass that’s as easy as squats and lunges, do it, it works!

    I was just talking to G’rilla about a bike fit he’s doing for a custom CX. Since my core got stronger, I’ve realized that I’m usually really just pulling on my bars; I can easily maintain my position riding without having my arms on the bars. That translates to being able to be much more effective in how you deal with shocks and bumps because you’re not just pile-driving your front wheel into obstacles.

    Handy for the pavé and CX for sure.

    Even the shitty core work I do has helped tremendously. Also, when I used to commute with my backpack before I did those exercises, my back would be killing me (there is quite a lot of climbing on my route) and these days I arrive at the office/home feeling just fine. Good stuff.

  29. @Jeff in PetroMetro

    @frank To your point, here’s my racing bike from 1989.

    And here’s my current resurrection…

    That. Look. Is. The. Sweetest. Fucking. Thing. Wow. Down to the white pedals, very LeMond ’86. And that Mercian…wow wow wow.

    (BTW, your front skewer is not fixed correctly.)

  30. @sthilzy

    @Jeff in PetroMetro

    Nice rides there!

    Hope you don’t mind, I had a play with your steed’s to compare then and now. I do this to check transferring set ups from one to another. The only thing is that if one bike is leaning over more you get distortion.

    Looks like the the saddle to bar drop the same, Mercian higher than the Look. Crank arm length may even this out?

    It’s only for fum comparison for you. You know you feel comfy on both.

    fella set yourself up a paypal account, make ppl submit two photos and charge £5 by return to do this.  I will be your first customer!  I would be really curious about the difference in geometry between my n#1 and n#2!

  31. @frank

    @Marcus

    The best saying i have heard about one’s core and cycling is that strong legs without a strong core is like firing a cannon from a canoe.

    Amazingly, that seems to be a common-enough saying that when you google “cannon in a canoe” you get a bunch of pictures of people doing yoga.

    And this.

    Which reminds of the Python gag about American beer being like sex in a canoe…

  32. @the Engine

    @frank

    @Marcus

    The best saying i have heard about one’s core and cycling is that strong legs without a strong core is like firing a cannon from a canoe.

    Amazingly, that seems to be a common-enough saying that when you google “cannon in a canoe” you get a bunch of pictures of people doing yoga.

    And this.

    Which reminds of the Python gag about American beer being like sex in a canoe…

    don’t start that shit again…..I had to spend an hour this morning reading back on last nights firefight just to figure out what the fuck was going on!!….cue ;)

  33. @Deakus

    @sthilzy

    @Jeff in PetroMetro

    Nice rides there!

    Hope you don’t mind, I had a play with your steed’s to compare then and now. I do this to check transferring set ups from one to another. The only thing is that if one bike is leaning over more you get distortion.

    Looks like the the saddle to bar drop the same, Mercian higher than the Look. Crank arm length may even this out?

    It’s only for fum comparison for you. You know you feel comfy on both.

    fella set yourself up a paypal account, make ppl submit two photos and charge £5 by return to do this. I will be your first customer! I would be really curious about the difference in geometry between my n#1 and n#2!

    Hmmmm_Thanks for the support! If I do, I’ll need to set up some rules for taking the pics so they are ‘usable’ to do comparison. I tried to keep the bars side on on both bikes. Also need to know a distance, say C-C seat to head tube, or C-C wheel base/axle.

    This is what I did to see how my set up may look with what I’ve got before making purchases/refunds to get a position I’m happy with. The Moser, I went through a couple of stems, ended up at 130mm long!

  34. @Dan_R

    @Jeff in PetroMetro Let’s hope I can do them justice!

    Sitting up a bit, yeah, I think that’s why I like my cross bike so much.

    I’m looking forward to your wheel recommendations.  1200grams gets me to 6.9kg for the bike.  Yeah.

  35. @frank Thanks for the compliments on the bikes.  I’ll put the bikes right for their official portraits, skewers and all!

  36. Yes, I think so.  Death.  Shock.  Tears shed.  Bike #2 becomes Bike #1.  Prayers to Merckx.  Prayers answered.  The Resurrection.  Good fortune.  A beautiful future.

    Don’t ever doubt the power of the V.

  37. @Nate

    @Jeff in PetroMetro I’m not Gianni, but we all indulged you for v.1. Why not v.2?

    Yes, but there were about 12 Velominati back then.  Five of them were Keepers.  And even Frank thought about breaking up my story into multiple entries.  A serial, if you will.  I’ll try to keep this next one a little shorter.

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