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Record Hub Rear

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I have total Bearing-bone for my classic Record hubs and would only trust my LBS to work on them as I am a total neophyte in these matters.

These have been rolling for about 8 months on weekend spins. How often should I get them checked out and adjusted?

Get a grease injector (like this http://goo.gl/VRA5Oe) and repack the bearings every so often – perhaps 3-6 months.  You’ll only need to have them adjusted if you can feel play between the wheel and axle.  To repack, slide the metal ribbon in the center of the hub around until you expose the grease port in the hub then shoot grease into the port.  Don’t need too much, but ok if some grease leaks out the sides of the axle.

On your second photo (front hub), to the right of center of the hub, you can see the indentation in the metal ribbon that covers the grease port.  After you’ve shot the grease into the port, slide the metal ribbon back into position until you see the indentation pop back into the port.

Unbelievably helpful that Campy includes grease ports in their (upper range) hubs…

This thread a good reminder I have these just waiting for a suitable pair of 28h tubular rims to surface and a rainy day to build them… Photographed on a Formica table top of similar vintage to the hubs…

There’s an ebay seller in the Netherlands who seems to have a large supply of new old stock Mavic Championnat du Monde tubular rims in 28 hole. Free shipping, so pretty reasonable. I got a pair from them to lace up to the aforementioned pista hubs. Not super light, just under 400 grams, but I wouldn’t go much lighter with only 28 spokes anyway.

Wondering whether it’s possible to re-chrome them as the flanges are aluminium.  So not sure whether it would be possible to protect that part in the process.

I have those laced to lightweight Fiamme rims.  Beautiful.

@osbk67

@gilly

They are beautiful though!

@gilly

Man! I suck at these old photos. Is it Geminiani lower center in the photo (although it looks like a young Paul Newman as well!). No idea on this stuff!

No, but like Geminiani he went on to be a DS and coached a slew of champions. Here’s the same trio cracking up Orson Welles at the start of the 1950 tour:

Pretty excited to get some new eyeglasses, been a few years. Not as exciting as white cyclo shades, but still fun.

@Buck Rogers

Photo is from the Giro 1950. Alright @pistard, since you guessed it, your turn to throw up an old photo and see if we can figure it out!

This should be easy, Bartali on the left and you know it’s the 1952 Tour:

 

Man!  I suck at these old photos.  Is it Geminiani lower center in the photo (although it looks like a young Paul Newman as well!).  No idea on this stuff!

@Buck Rogers

Photo is from the Giro 1950. Alright @pistard, since you guessed it, your turn to throw up an old photo and see if we can figure it out!

This should be easy, Bartali on the left and you know it’s the 1952 Tour:

Great Shot!

@Buck Rogers

Photo is from the Giro 1950. Alright @pistard, since you guessed it, your turn to throw up an old photo and see if we can figure it out!

This should be easy, Bartali on the left and you know it’s the 1952 Tour:

This is open to all!  I’ll wait until tomorrow as I am retiring form the internet for the night.  Catch you tomorrow!!!

Photo is from the Giro 1950. Alright @pistard, since you guessed it, your turn to throw up an old photo and see if we can figure it out!

This should be easy, Bartali on the left and you know it’s the 1952 Tour:

One other thing about that photo: Koblet was the “pedaller of charm.” Bartali always looked good and stylish. Alas, poor Robic made Michel Pollentier look good on a bike and that’s saying something. Later in his career Robic wore an old school leather helmet. Trust me, don’t google it – he looked awful. Great rider – sartorially terrible.

Pretty sure that Robic’s son went into cinema

One other thing about that photo: Koblet was the “pedaller of charm.” Bartali always looked good and stylish. Alas, poor Robic made Michel Pollentier look good on a bike and that’s saying something. Later in his career Robic wore an old school leather helmet. Trust me, don’t google it – he looked awful. Great rider – sartorially terrible.

YES! He supposedly kept a comb in his jersey pocket and would comb his hair before the finish, if at all possible, and after the line if he could not manage it before.

@Buck Rogers

@pistard

@Buck Rogers The light bulb went on about 30 seconds after I posted that. Once you realize why Coppi’s nowhere in sight, it’s obvious.

Pretty sure you’ve got it but want to make sure! Not trying to be an ass or anything (but, in my defense, I have been told that I cannot help being an ass at most times)!

I’m thinking Koblet.

@wiscot

@Buck Rogers

@Oli

@Rom

@Oli

I love it when you have your bike in the stand and you put a wheel with a perfectly adjusted Record or DA hub in the fork and the wheel just slowly rolls around of it’s own accord to have the heaviest part eventually settle at the bottom.

Even my Circa 1980 Nuovo Record, high flange hubs do that, and that’s with slightly pitted races.

I wish I never said anything.

Oli my Friend! Don’t let the Bastardos get you down!

Quick, who are these three gentlemen???

Dammit – it’s the ever-stylin Hugo Koblet.

DING, DING, DING!!!  We have winners!!!  Well done, Lads!!!

@Oli

@Rom

@Oli

I love it when you have your bike in the stand and you put a wheel with a perfectly adjusted Record or DA hub in the fork and the wheel just slowly rolls around of it’s own accord to have the heaviest part eventually settle at the bottom.

Even my Circa 1980 Nuovo Record, high flange hubs do that, and that’s with slightly pitted races.

I wish I never said anything.

Oli my Friend! Don’t let the Bastardos get you down!

Quick, who are these three gentlemen???

Dammit – it’s the ever-stylin Hugo Koblet.

@pistard

@Buck Rogers The light bulb went on about 30 seconds after I posted that. Once you realize why Coppi’s nowhere in sight, it’s obvious.

Pretty sure you’ve got it but want to make sure! Not trying to be an ass or anything (but, in my defense, I have been told that I cannot help being an ass at most times)!

I’m thinking Koblet.

@Buck Rogers The light bulb went on about 30 seconds after I posted that. Once you realize why Coppi’s nowhere in sight, it’s obvious.

Pretty sure you’ve got it but want to make sure!  Not trying to be an ass or anything (but, in my defense, I have been told that I cannot help being an ass at most times)!

@Haldy

Opinions being what they are, everyone to their own. That’s the beauty of the sport. I love my old Campy hubs, for sure. But are Campy wheels fast? Sort of. Zipp is recognized as having some of the fastest wheels available, used by tons of pros, many with the Zipp logo blacked out. The bearings? Cartridge.

Agreed…cartridge bearings that are replaced almost every other race. Why?..they empty out the grease and run them on oil. I have done the same thing for my track wheels for big events. But that’s not something the average guy can do on a regular basis. And let’s talk top level fast…the guys that do the most to find marginal gains…every extra little ounce of speed..yeah..Team Sky. The wheels they use…Shimano…with loose ball bearings…

Opinions being what they are, everyone to their own. That’s the beauty of the sport.  I love my old Campy hubs, for sure. But are Campy wheels fast?  Sort of.  Zipp is recognized as having some of the fastest wheels available, used by tons of pros, many with the Zipp logo blacked out.  The bearings?  Cartridge.

@Buck Rogers is that Bartali’s team mate, Jomaux?

Nope.

@pistard

@Buck Rogers The light bulb went on about 30 seconds after I posted that. Once you realize why Coppi’s nowhere in sight, it’s obvious.

So your guess is?

@unversio

@MangoDave Find the same decent hub used. Hard to isolate that piece.

I’ll go that route if I have to, but it would be better if I could just find the part.

@Nate

Thanks. I didn’t see anything on Brandford’s website, an obscure thing like the hub piece probably requires a phone call.

And to be more on topic, my Chorus hubs are 14 years old and still magnificently smooth.

I agree — find the piece. My rationale was to secure a replacement [ bargain ] hub for the unforeseen future and rob the small piece in the meantime.

@MangoDave Find the same decent hub used. Hard to isolate that piece.

I’ll go that route if I have to, but it would be better if I could just find the part.

@Nate

Thanks.  I didn’t see anything on Brandford’s website, an obscure thing like the hub piece probably requires a phone call.

And to be more on topic, my Chorus hubs are 14 years old and still magnificently smooth.

I know what you guys mean about loose balls and winter projects. I rebuilt this Deore DX hub last winter as part of my “Love Your ’92 Rocky Mountain Hammer Project.” I spent hours fiddling with little metal balls, grease and cone wrenches in my basement shop as the December days grew darker and darker. Therapeutic. Spiritual even.

Bearings are the final frontier of wrenching for me.  Short of cutting carbon bits (which I let the LBS do purely for replacement reasons, I figure they break it they buy it) I have become competent at just about everything but loose ball bearing work.

Last year, partly based off Frank’s lust for campy record hubs, and partly based off a hair brained notion to race cross on an Italian steel (well Italian branded) / campy adorned machine, I built up a set of cross wheels with record 10 hubs.  This winter they will require a rebuild, so I guess I’m in for the pound now.

I will tell later (not that I knew without looking at the subtitled page it came from) but I want to see if Oli can tell us (or I will confirm it if someone else gets it right beforehand).

I love these old photos and trying to guess who is in them and what year/race they are from.  Frahnk ought to have a subpage just for this type of thing to have fun with!

@Buck Rogers

@Oli

@Rom

@Oli

I love it when you have your bike in the stand and you put a wheel with a perfectly adjusted Record or DA hub in the fork and the wheel just slowly rolls around of it’s own accord to have the heaviest part eventually settle at the bottom.

Even my Circa 1980 Nuovo Record, high flange hubs do that, and that’s with slightly pitted races.

I wish I never said anything.

Oli my Friend! Don’t let the Bastardos get you down!

Quick, who are these three gentlemen???

Left to right: Gino Bartali, Jean Robic and . . . not sure. Doesn’t look like Coppi and I can’t get a look-see on the jersey. Bartali’s says Bartali on it. Robic’s a funny-looking wee bugger so he’s easy to spot. That some Rule #9 riding going on for sure!

Raphael Geminiani?

@Buck Rogers

@Oli

@Rom

@Oli

I love it when you have your bike in the stand and you put a wheel with a perfectly adjusted Record or DA hub in the fork and the wheel just slowly rolls around of it’s own accord to have the heaviest part eventually settle at the bottom.

Even my Circa 1980 Nuovo Record, high flange hubs do that, and that’s with slightly pitted races.

I wish I never said anything.

Oli my Friend! Don’t let the Bastardos get you down!

Quick, who are these three gentlemen???

Left to right: Gino Bartali, Jean Robic and . . . not sure. Doesn’t look like Coppi and I can’t get a look-see on the jersey. Bartali’s says Bartali on it. Robic’s a funny-looking wee bugger so he’s easy to spot. That some Rule #9 riding going on for sure!

Fuck’in STRONG work, Brother!  I did not know all of them.  I just searched on google images for a cool old photo–fortunately for me, the subpage had them all identified and you are correct on the two you have named. Robic was a funny looking little bastard so I knew him but the other two I would not have guessed. Let’s see if anyone (Oli) can get the third! 

Had to try to offset the bullshit, completely non-contributory, comment to Oli’s earlier comment.

@Oli

@Rom

@Oli

I love it when you have your bike in the stand and you put a wheel with a perfectly adjusted Record or DA hub in the fork and the wheel just slowly rolls around of it’s own accord to have the heaviest part eventually settle at the bottom.

Even my Circa 1980 Nuovo Record, high flange hubs do that, and that’s with slightly pitted races.

I wish I never said anything.

Oli my Friend! Don’t let the Bastardos get you down!

Quick, who are these three gentlemen???

Left to right: Gino Bartali, Jean Robic and . . . not sure. Doesn’t look like Coppi and I can’t get a look-see on the jersey. Bartali’s says Bartali on it. Robic’s a funny-looking wee bugger so he’s easy to spot. That some Rule 9 riding going on for sure!

@Rom

@Oli

I love it when you have your bike in the stand and you put a wheel with a perfectly adjusted Record or DA hub in the fork and the wheel just slowly rolls around of it’s own accord to have the heaviest part eventually settle at the bottom.

Even my Circa 1980 Nuovo Record, high flange hubs do that, and that’s with slightly pitted races.

I wish I never said anything.

Oli my Friend!  Don’t let the Bastardos get you down!

Quick, who are these three gentlemen???

@MangoDave and, in particular, @freddy: nice photos! @Frank: nice article!

@Oli

I love it when you have your bike in the stand and you put a wheel with a perfectly adjusted Record or DA hub in the fork and the wheel just slowly rolls around of it’s own accord to have the heaviest part eventually settle at the bottom.

Even my Circa 1980 Nuovo Record, high flange hubs do that, and that’s with slightly pitted races.

I wish I never said anything.

@all  Does anyone know where to get that aluminum dust cap, as seen in the above Record hub?  I lost one on the front of my Chorus hub, so one side looks silver and shiny, the other side has the black donut exposed like the second pic above.  It annoys me every time I see my wheel mismatched.  I’ve searched the interwebs for the piece but can’t find one.

2 / 2

This reminds me, does anyone know where to get a replacement aluminum dust cover, as seen here on the Record rear hub?  I have a set of Chorus/Open Pros, and one of the covers is missing from the front hub so it exposes the black donut, as seen in the second pic above.  It really annoys me every time I see my wheel with one side silver and the other side black.  I’ve searched the interwebs for the piece with no luck.

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As for me, I will stay with modern sealed/cartridge bearings and focus my attention on my pedal stroke and making deposits in the V bank.

I think this is where I’m at. I remember, as a younger person, working in the high school auto shop and pressing bearings for various automotive applications. Much larger than those on a bike, yet still a giant pain in the ass. I am certain that there is a measure of manliness in possessing the know-how to replace my own bearings, but I’d personally rather ride my bike than press bearings into position. Also, someone mentioned in another thread that the capability of the average human to accurately feel small differences in performance (such as would be the case with free bearings vs. cartridge) is entirely negligible. So maybe I’ll be OK.

@frank a clip of that scene used to be on youtoob. Couldn’t find it on my phone so I punted. Now the narration is stuck in my head: “a quiet garden. Along toward noon…”

I have the same memory kicking around in my noggin somewhere and had the same experience looking for it, albeit from the desktop.

@Chris

@Teocalli My Speedplays were never quite the same* after the London Cogal. Fortunately, for my patience and skill levels, the cartridge bearings are fairly easy to replace.

*never quite the same can be translated from the Queen’s English to murican as “completely fucked”.

That’s a classic!

@Oli

I love it when you have your bike in the stand and you put a wheel with a perfectly adjusted Record or DA hub in the fork and the wheel just slowly rolls around of it’s own accord to have the heaviest part eventually settle at the bottom.

I had to look at the URL to see if I hadn’t accidentally bounced over to the development site with old data when I saw your name. Good to see you back around these here parts.

@Marko rode my steel with the Record hubs (’98) when he was here last and he kept coasting by everyone in the group on the descents with a shit-eatin’ grin because the wheels rolled so fast.

I can get my CK and Alchemy hubs to spin in the stand until the valve is at the bottom, but I adjust them so loose there is play in the axle. Doesn’t bother me but its certainly less glorious than the Records.

@pistard

I don’t even bother trying to clean and reuse them. New balls are cheap and you don’t risk putting grit back into the bearing. Just make sure to get Grade 25 or better and more than you need (so when you drop one in reassembly you can grab a clean one).

I work on the principle that a god set of old balls beats a young set every time…..

or even a “good” set…

 

Get a cheap rug or towel in a contrasting colour, I always work over one for this very reason, it stops those runaway fuckers dead in their tracks! And keeps chain spooge off the lounge carpet..

I do usually aim at an oily rag but sometimes the darned things have a mind of their own.  The funniest one recently was the bright idea to use a tin so they couldn’t roll away from the rag.  It’s surprising how much bounce a ball bearing can get from the bottom of a tin………..

 

I don’t even bother trying to clean and reuse them. New balls are cheap and you don’t risk putting grit back into the bearing. Just make sure to get Grade 25 or better and more than you need (so when you drop one in reassembly you can grab a clean one).

I work on the principle that a god set of old balls beats a young set every time…..

I love it when you have your bike in the stand and you put a wheel with a perfectly adjusted Record or DA hub in the fork and the wheel just slowly rolls around of it’s own accord to have the heaviest part eventually settle at the bottom.

Even my Circa 1980 Nuovo Record, high flange hubs do that, and that’s with slightly pitted races.

But, fucken whatever floats your boat. A ball bearing that is close to the other bearings in terms of millions of a mm and dissipates heat that isn’t generated on a bike might be a good way to spend your money, in the same way heroin seems like a good idea at the time.

According to my mechanic I seem to have a negative bearing field around me. He accuses me of taking my bike to a sand-blaster with the sole purpose of injecting granules under high pressure, for the enjoyment of grinding them into a greasy paste.
This allowed him to convince me to spend a ludicrous amount of money on Ceramic Speed bearings for the BB, and he is also trying persuade me to put them in my hubs and pulleys. I need to learn how to remove and clean them or this could be a very expensive path.

I wouldn’t go for ceramic bearings in the desert. Our desert has mostly very fine sand – not coarse like beach sand – which seems to creep past every barrier. Our windows and doors all have seals and yet there’s still a fine line after every sandstorm, and the bikes, well… With the amount of power-washing and applications of hard degreasers, I could be a cyclocross pit mechanic.

It tears through everything, but it seems that ceramic bearings are hit the hardest. My mum used to have Campag’s ceramic BB and hubs, as well as ceramic hubs on her DT190/ENVE wheels, and had to change them out practically every few months. Went back to steel at some point – it’s cheaper to replace, seems to last longer (or at least, deteriorate slower and less suddenly) and basically just as fast. Or at least, insignificant.

And, in a one time only deal that no one cares about any more, tracks used to strip the grease out of their hubs and replace with light oil for important races to really spin up with zero friction.

Old school was to take one ball out of each side and run dry.

@rfreese888

@rfreese888

out of curiosity – would one ever use ceramic bearings in a classic hub like the Record ones shown in this post?

That depends greatly on the level of ceramic bearing. The CULT bearings that Campy use in their current wheels required them to develop a special steel alloy bearing race because the bearings tore up the standard steel and alloy races they were using in the hubs.

The current Super Record BB using those bearing( albeit it in cartridge form) is the only external BB I have ever found to come close to spinning as smoothly as the nearly 30 year old C-Record bb I have in my old DeRosa. It’s worth noting..most of the top level track racers still use old square taper bb’s( mostly Sugino 75) for the ultra smooth spin. It’s one place where the smoothness is still rated higher than the stiffness.

Track is a whole other kettle of fish. Track racers have avoided external BBs because the cranks squirm in the bearings. DA BBs are octalink, which isa sealed unit, and a lot of the square taper BBs will use sealed cartridges.

I have 2 Sugino 75 cranksets with BBs, and with the bearing retainers they are fricken amazeballs. You can reduce the friction by ditching the bearing retainers, and use grease to hold them in place, and they’re even smoother.

And, in a one time only deal that no one cares about any more, tracks used to strip the grease out of their hubs and replace with light oil for important races to really spin up with zero friction.

A lot of street fixie BS will use external BBs, and Sram Omnium cranks (Not standard or top end by any means) use an external BB but most stick quality cranks stick with at least cartridge bbs.

Mavic Ksyriums (Bleurgh revolting)

Ultegra hubs, Nemesis rims

DA hubs, open pros

Zipp 303s (super, duper light but not the best hubs)

Hed Stinger 6s sealed bearings

Campagnolo record track hub

Easton EC90 track wheels (like the zipps)

Shimano mtb wheels on the commuter.

The only redeeming feature, apart from the commuter wheels, is the relative quality of the cup and cone hubs I’ve got, which in my reckoning compensates for owning so much sealed bearing garbage.

@SamFromTex

@Puffy

Mentioned already but DA hub run old school cup and cone. I have a pair of 11speed C24’s. It costs something like $30 for a set of new ball bearings and grease to service them. Awesome.

I’m pretty sure all of Shimano’s hubs are cup and cone.

Yes, Ultegra are for sure:

@Puffy

Mentioned already but DA hub run old school cup and cone. I have a pair of 11speed C24’s. It costs something like $30 for a set of new ball bearings and grease to service them. Awesome.

I’m pretty sure all of Shimano’s hubs are cup and cone.

Yes, Ultegra are for sure:

Mentioned already but DA hub run old school cup and cone. I have a pair of 11speed C24’s. It costs something like $30 for a set of new ball bearings and grease to service them. Awesome.

I’m pretty sure all of Shimano’s hubs are cup and cone.

I have a german vintage track disc, a “666” and it runs cartridge bearings, no seals, no grease, just a drop of oil = low drag. That was back in the 80’s.

As for me, I will stay with modern sealed/cartridge bearings and focus my attention on my pedal stroke and making deposits in the V bank.

Years of auto racing have taught me that it is ALWAYS beneficial to have your excuses lined up beforehand. Now I have a new one: damn cartridge bearing drag!

One bearing always seems to drop out and miss your carefully placed catch pan and bounce unseen across the floor. Lost count of the times I have spend ages finger tip and torch searching the conservatory floor for the darned escapee.

@Ccos

That said, there’s an outside chance I may have sounded like an R-rated Yosemite Sam the last time I dropped the bearings out of mine.

I don’t even bother trying to clean and reuse them. New balls are cheap and you don’t risk putting grit back into the bearing. Just make sure to get Grade 25 or better and more than you need (so when you drop one in reassembly you can grab a clean one).

Plenty of high end loose ball technology still out there for Japanese Keirin racing too — Sugino, Hatta, Shimano, etc. There are NJS-certified sealed bearing models but tradition and serviceability mean it’s still ball-centric (and yes, in that sense too, but women’s Keirin racing was reintroduced a couple years ago).

I don’t agree that sealed bearings are simpler or cheaper to service. Some sealed hubs and bottom brackets need proprietary tools to pull and replace bearings properly. And with some it’s just as easy to put too much or too little preload on them as with cup and cone, meaning too much drag or premature wear.

Not sure re RS81.  But my DA C24’s went pair shaped, a friend who has DA C35’s is starting to show signs also.

To Shimano’s credit there was a no questions asked return, I assume due to being well inside warranty period and also the known issue that my wheels presented with.

That being said Ive had no problems thus far with my replacement DA9000 C24’s.  Touch wood.

@piwakawaka

Haven’ t had a problem with Dura Ace hubs on the C24 wheels no adjustments in 8500km… unlike the cassette….

What breed C24’s ? DA9000 ? If so watch for delamination, had to send mine back for warranty and word is its a known issue with the clear coat !

Is that the same with their alloy/carbon layups as well (RS81 or whatever?)

@Dan_R

Dura Ace and Record hubs are still a premium buy and they do come with great ball and cone bearing set ups. Do not discount the sealed bearings in many other brands, it is just a different way to do the same thing. Both sealed and ball bearings can be replaced and rebuilt by anyone that has the gumption to learn how. But nostalgia, which this is all about, dictates that ball and cone rocks. And it does if you know what you are doing.

It does concern me that the cone shape supports the bearing vertically and horizontally, while oftentimes the cartridge bearing is only supported vertically, and then tensioned horizontally by the axles/QR. Sideways forces on the wheel push the cartridge out of its supported direction.

I haven’t seen or heard of any additional failures or anything because of this, but is just something that keeps me awake at night. Even though I have no hubs with cartridge bearings.

@Teocalli

One bearing always seems to drop out and miss your carefully placed catch pan and bounce unseen across the floor.

Get a cheap rug or towel in a contrasting colour, I always work over one for this very reason, it stops those runaway fuckers dead in their tracks! And keeps chain spooge off the lounge carpet..

That said, there’s an outside chance I may have sounded like an R-rated Yosemite Sam the last time I dropped the bearings out of mine.

Haven’ t had a problem with Dura Ace hubs on the C24 wheels no adjustments in 8500km… unlike the cassette….

What breed C24’s ?   DA9000 ?    If so watch for delamination, had to send mine back for warranty and word is its a known issue with the clear coat !

*never quite the same can be translated from the Queen’s English to murican as “completely fucked, wouldn’t turn and only really worked after replacing the bearings seals and spindles”.

No forgetting free ball bearings in the pedals too. Which reminds me I need to service mine.

Though the thing that always seems to get me is carefully removing forks and making sure the bearings don’t drop out but there is always one from the bottom set that sticks in the head tube race just till your back is turned as you put the forks down and……ping….tink….bing. One bearing always seems to drop out and miss your carefully placed catch pan and bounce unseen across the floor. Lost count of the times I have spend ages finger tip and torch searching the conservatory floor for the darned escapee.

Can still see said bearings stuck between the floorboards in the shed at my folks. See them can’t get them.

Pedals with free-ball bearings. Had more of a hard time getting them done over the other free-balls.

As a kid working at my LBS, once we got the hubs running nice, we then balance the wheel with thick solder around the spokes. When you hold the wheel in your hands and spin them, there’s none of the bouncing sensation.

Though the thing that always seems to get me is carefully removing forks and making sure the bearings don’t drop out but there is always one from the bottom set that sticks in the head tube race just till your back is turned as you put the forks down and……ping….tink….bing.  One bearing always seems to drop out and miss your carefully placed catch pan and bounce unseen across the floor.  Lost count of the times I have spend ages finger tip and torch searching the conservatory floor for the darned escapee.

@ChrisO I do wonder about ceramic and sand.  Doesn’t sound like a good combination.  Ceramic is hard but hard things almost by definition are brittle.  Silica is also hard and so has similar characteristics.  Could a shattered bearing be more likely than with steel.

My Campa Record hubs still have loose bearings, but that’s the only bicycle I own which still holds this relic. And I don’t even own the tools to properly adjust them.

Who doesn’t own cone wrenches? Oh right, anyone that is not an old fuck. I’ll loan you my campa cone wrenches when you want to fulfill your destiny, luke.

I get that the Park frame clamp has sort of a cult standing in most bike shops, as well as those of us who have one at home. But lamenting loose ball bearings! You can have them if that’s your wish for Nirvana. As much as I love Campy Record hubs, BBs, and headsets, I will stick with the new world on this one. Why? First and foremost, cartridge hub bearings are just plan faster. I need all the help I can get now, too! Second, my time is way more valuable than when I was a twenty-something bike racer bum. Since I was without entanglements of a career and responsibility, I rode a heck of a lot more than now except for a November break. I rode pretty much all year ’round, regardless of weather. That riding was here in the Northwest, too. As some of you may have heard it rains here sometimes. Rain, lots of miles, plus loose ball bearing hubs/BBs/headsets equaled time spent maintaining the bike. A lot. As in once a week sometimes if the weather was really crappy. As in go through a tub of the mystical Campy grease over a winters worth of riding. Granted there was sort of a pay-off in this experience for I could tear down a hub, clean it out, repack, and reassemble very quickly. And I learned the right “feel” to setting up the bearings to run just right, not too tight, not too loose. Great skill to have for a bike shop mechanic during the 80’s. Not so much now. I might be wrong headed here and overly enamored by the ease of maintenance of my current #1 bici. But the old days are sometimes just left in the dustbin.

Ouch…Cartridge bearings are faster??….sorry..you got that one wrong. Loose ball systems have far less friction than cartridge bearings. Even the ceramic ones. The ceramic (sealed) bearings came along to try and compete with the smoothness of loose ball but still fall short. There is a reason that the upper end Campy and Shimano hubs and wheels are still loose ball…faster rolling!

BB’s made the switch to cartridge style for ease on maintenance, hubs followed suit. Then hub manufacturers realized they could make stronger hub shells and therefore stiffer wheels( needed for suspension forks to help stabilize the legs) with cartridge bearings. The upside on the BB side of things was that larger bearings could support larger spindles and therefore add stiffness. But smoother rolling is NOT part of the equation. As I posted earlier…the top level trackies, a breed eternally seeking stiffness to lay down the V, still use cup and cone bottom brackets…why? When doing 200+ rpm…friction is a bigger enemy….

And sadly..working on cup and cone is a dying art as @Frank mentioned. It pained me to be at Interbike this year and see that Park Tool had to have a seminar that taught current mechanics how to properly adjust cup and cone systems. I was horrified to see that a clinic like that was needed at an industry event. I can assure you…the shop I work at…all the young guys have been taught how to work on cup and cone!

With the application of the LBS, some marine grease and £21.00 it’s as good as new – loose ball bearings I’d still be working on…

@rfreese888 they shouldn’t need much adjustment once set. The bigger thing is keeping the innards clean, which depends on the conditions you ride in.

Cheers Nate – I mostly use them in good weather, but in Ireland that can still mean getting caught in the rain, and occasionally Noah’s Ark conditions. I aim to get the whole bike serviced in Feb (my current level is weekly cleaning, fixing flats, and replacing brake pads) so will have the hubs checked out too.

@rfreese888

out of curiosity – would one ever use ceramic bearings in a classic hub like the Record ones shown in this post?

That depends greatly on the level of ceramic bearing. The CULT bearings that Campy use in their current wheels required them to develop a special steel alloy bearing race because the bearings tore up the standard steel and alloy races they were using in the hubs.

The current Super Record BB using those bearing( albeit it in cartridge form) is the only external BB I have ever found to come close to spinning as smoothly as the nearly 30 year old C-Record bb I have in my old DeRosa. It’s worth noting..most of the top level track racers still use old square taper bb’s( mostly Sugino 75) for the ultra smooth spin. It’s one place where the smoothness is still rated higher than the stiffness.

My commuter has some cheapo Axel wheels (did you hear that SantaVelomihottieClaus?) and they were knocking a few weeks back. I pulled them apart to find, to my surprise, loose bearings. I was sure they’d have cartridge. My second surprise was that the seal is simply a metal cap. Not a rubber seal and cap like the 105 hubs I’d worked on, just a metal cap. Huh. Was easier than I remembered to pull it apart and put it back together, but I’m years passed my last experience, and much handier at fixing bikes.

I still have yet to sort out how much play Mavic Ksyrium wheels should have. The play feels different to me than Shimano hubs. Instead of a wiggle movement, it’s more like a here/there back/forth. (yes, not very descriptive, sorry).

Loctite – the NDS bolt on my FSA crankset likes to work itself out every few months. I tighten it down, eventually I’ll look down when riding and see it’s not flush against the crankarm. Not sure how to sort it.

http://www.lfgss.com/conversations/256822/

I have an old Dura-ace 7700 bottom bracket that’s been in service since 2000. Loose balls and needle bearings with soft alloy lockrings make for delicate rebuilds, but the smoothness is so worth it.

It makes me sound like a grumpy old Luddite, but most of my favorite bike parts are well over 10 years old. And I love riding them too.

I have total Bearing-bone for my classic Record hubs

Nice!