Mountain bike racing back in the ’80s was all about #5. Most were at least 20-25 miles long, loaded with steep-ass climbs, and rough as hell. With no suspension. Good times.

http://s557.photobucket.com/user/Endurimil/media/Monstercross%202014/image_zpsfde09e04.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9

It brings me back to my first MTBs, GT Avalance, Specialized Stumpjumper with Suntour XC! and a Swinn with yellow Magura, Softride stem and Look MTBs. Cool days – lots of inovation, pedals, suspension forks/stems, saddles and much more including Paola Pezzo.

@frank

What kind/size tire is that, Frank? I want to put some gravel grinder/CX tires on my commuter bike (700x32c tires). There’s a park on the way to work that has gravel/sand sections in it. I would love to turn this bike into a gravel grinder/Frankenbike.

That would be a Clement LAS 700×33. Knowing Frank, it is probably the tubular version, but they make both.

If you like gumwalls, Challenge makes a nice one to.

     What kind/size tire is that, Frank? I want to put some gravel grinder/CX tires on my commuter bike (700x32c tires). There’s a park on the way to work that has gravel/sand sections in it. I would love to turn this bike into a gravel grinder/Frankenbike.

Commentator Rob Warner has a show on Red Bull ( http://www.redbull.tv/Robs-Dirty-Business ) and many funny quotes: http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=75527

…and if we’re even remotely talking about skinsuits in mountain biking, why hasn’t anyone brought up Paola Pezzo yet?

I was so sad that she beat Alison Sydor in Atlanta at the Olympics, but she was certainly memorable.  It would have been awesome to have a Canuck in gold.  XC MTB was a demonstration sport that year I believe.

Panaracer Dart and Fire gumwall tyres, Clubroost anodized handle bars, Sachs Wavy Griptwist gears, Tektro V brakes, Mavic rims on a Hope red anodized Ti front hub and a Shimano STX Silent rear hub (remember them?!). Club roost saddle. Fisher Big Sur frame, Sachs rear der, Shim XT from der. Lake MTB boots, what was I thinking?! At least the kit matched the helpmet and handlebars/grips!

I ran Panaracers for years before going to Spesh Team Control. I see a lot of them on ebay – I may go back!

Me, at The Malvern Classis in the early 90’s, happy days on my custom Fisher Big Sur…

Much Awesome here.

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SO cool! It’s never old to me.

@freddy

@ChrissyOne

@panarchy

GOLD. This thread is GOLD!

No, it’s ANODIZED PURPLE.

…as in bar ends, perhaps?

Bar ends? But of course…

But in blue to match the fame, of course.

I had purple bar ends on my Trek 930.

Is this Bar End corner! Brand spakin new on it’s maiden ride, a MTB race in Bright.

Bought the Balance the same week that the girlfriend at the time wanted to break up. So my weekends were free, so nothing like riding out in the bush with a bunch of mates! Good times!

Rule violations aside, I still ride it and I have a second set of wheels with slicks for cruising around town and pulling a Trail-a-Bike.

The original wheels were destroyed long ago and the cassette, chain, cables and 46t have been replaced but the frame, fork, bars, Flite saddle, seatpost, pedals, and group-san are from the early 1990s.

@frank if by some miracle I managed to get my grubby claws on one of these, I don’t think I’d be riding it much, it would join the Time, signed, numbered, Tom Boonen world champs frame, and the 1984 Pinarello track bike hanging on the wall, the bike was way, way cooler than anything, anything else at the time, that integrated stem and bar, the size of the tubing, fuck even the paint job, it’s a work of art, only re-inforced by the oddness of the man himself !

Two helmets, one cycling cap. Glad the dude on the top step got it right!

(take it easy, I know all three are probably legends, I just wasn’t riding mtn. bikes in the early 90s, and as all this shows, my loss)

Haven’t ridden Capitol Forest yet, but looked at it on the map recently and noticed that it’s pretty big. Some friends up here go back and forth between Squirm and Olympia and have ridden it a lot and like it.

@scaler911

I’ve met n ridden with Gary Klein (his shop was down this way in the 90″²s). Odd fellow.

That’s what I’ve heard – I had a friend who used to ride with him. So you from Chehalis area? Ride Capitol Forest at all?

I’m a resident of Vantucky (not born n raised, just lived here too long). Have not ridden Capitol Forest, but all over the Gifford out by Rainer, Adams, St Helens etc.

@ChrissyOne

No offense meant (and todd is godd).

I’m only confused during waking hours now.

@ChrissyOne

@panarchy

GOLD. This thread is GOLD!

No, it’s ANODIZED PURPLE.

…as in bar ends, perhaps?

Bar ends? But of course…

But in blue to match the fame, of course.

I had purple bar ends on my Trek 930.

Went to get the Volvo Cannondale colours (cheers, cadel), but fell in lust with the ChromAlusion Purpleen. Ecstasy has  a lot to commend it/answer for….

Christ it never ends.

What a life.

@panarchy

GOLD. This thread is GOLD!

No, it’s ANODIZED PURPLE.

…as in bar ends, perhaps?

My ’92 Rocky Mountain Hammer (poor man’s racer of the day)

Bruce Spicer and Daryl Price

Andy Tout, John Tomac and Kirk Molday at the Horseshoe Canada Cup in 1992.

http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/Phelan/mammary.html

I’ve met n ridden with Gary Klein (his shop was down this way in the 90″²s). Odd fellow.

That’s what I’ve heard – I had a friend who used to ride with him. So you from Chehalis area? Ride Capitol Forest at all?

To be clear, I was responding to @xyxax, not to you.

@piwakawaka

Mmmm Attitude….

I’ll never forget the first time I saw an Attitude. I’d never seen internal routing before – it was so clean and sexy, and of course Klein had a paint-matched version of the Rock Shox fork that went with it. It was the most beautiful thing I’d ever seen. (It was actually THIS one). I never bought a Klein, but I always *wanted* one.

I’ve met n ridden with Gary Klein (his shop was down this way in the 90’s). Odd fellow.

Mmmm Attitude….

I’ll never forget the first time I saw an Attitude. I’d never seen internal routing before – it was so clean and sexy, and of course Klein had a paint-matched version of the Rock Shox fork that went with it. It was the most beautiful thing I’d ever seen. (It was actually THIS one). I never bought a Klein, but I always *wanted* one.

@ChrissyOne

Is that….Todd Rundgren?

Do you need to work with @scaler911 on gender ID issues? His relative expertise might be of use.

Is that….Todd Rundgren?

@Nate

@frank

@Weldertron

@Joey

Picture #12 begs for a rule regarding MTB suspension. The amount of suspension required is inversely proportional to the amount of testicular fortitude possessed by the rider. If you need 6″³ on both ends there is room for only one tiny testicle, whereas anyone sending boulder drops on a few inches up front immediately confirms their mastery of Rule V.

Sorry, but i beg to differ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilqCro2MVU

Not only is that riding incredible, the commentators are TOTALLY worth the watch just to hear them shit themselves completely!

Here’s a version where they show the commentators:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZV7zfMGTg

I love the one guy chugging the beer and then pinching the other guy’s beer. Fucking classic.

I am not a DH MTB fan purely because of those two commentators. If the sport is smart enough to put those two guys behind a microphone, I’m all set.

Now we’re talking!  Maybe if P&P were chugging beers instead of Red Rose their TDF comments would be more entertaining?

And hey “” post your Seattle Graveur loop sometime, hey? I’m on the wrong side of the city for it, but I’d be interested and I bet some others would as well. I’m just trying to connect the John Wayne Pioneer Trail with the crappy roads that link the Denny Creek campground to Snoqualmie Pass. Haven’t worked it out yet, though…

I’m still working on it, but I will post it for sure once it’s finalized. Right now I’m doing a series of loops but just need the time to combine a few more together. The single track is in Woodland Park and even goes so far as to include a BMX pump track. Then its off to Green Lake, Lake Washington (trying to find a less tarmac’d way out there), and (planned) Blue Ridge. When all is said and done, should be a single 40km loop if you want to do it all.

Massive stud for sure. This shot is already in Brett’s main article, but it is worth looking at again; note the single right-side bar-end shifter and standard DT shifter.

This is another great shot I don’t think has been posted yet in this thread; I love the combination of STI and bar-end shifter. There was nothing he wouldn’t try if he thought it might make him even just a little bit more badass.

In other words, the current outfits worn in DH MTB are more for style than performance.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/From-beyond-the-grave-Cairns-Downhill-video-2013.html

And hey — post your Seattle graveur loop sometime, hey?  I’m on the wrong side of the city for it, but I’d be interested and I bet some others would as well.  I’m just trying to connect the John Wayne Pioneer Trail with the crappy roads that link the Denny Creek campground to Snoqualmie Pass.  Haven’t worked it out yet, though…

@cognition

@frank Really? Drop bars on Tomac and Jaquie’s bikes were awesome in their own right, but I’ve always thought that the origins of the Graveur come from the Tour and Giro riders going over gravel roads in the Alps and Dolomites; particularly the legendary hardmen of the mid-century like Bottechia and Coppi…

I’ll be the first to point out what fucking legends they were, but those guys were just riding the roads they had. They weren’t doing anything more innovative than just riding their bikes over the highest roads they could find.

The Graveur scene is much more about leaving the paved, high quality roads and looking for something interesting elsewhere while still going fast and far. These are sub-standard roads and often even trails linking sections of a route together – the kinds of roads where even a 27, 28, or 30mm road tire would be woefully inadequate.

That gravel scene is found somewhere between MTB and riding good gravel on a road bike like they do on the Strade Bianche presently. Even on my Graveur loop in Seattle proper I’m riding a mix of tarmac, gravel roads/paths, and singletrack. No way would a road bike handle it. Its fast enough to merit a true road position but technical enough to require wider tires with at least some nobs.

To that end these bikes we’re seeing here in this thread are much closer to where we’re landing now, with super wide tires but still trying to mimic a road bike position somewhat.

As a point of fact, cornering on these in gravel is an interesting experience; when you go in you start to drift until you’ve leaned it over enough that the nobs catch. Then you’re on rails.

I could have used those in the Dirty40 last year. There was a downhill sweeping corner with a huge crown, and I found myself on the wrong side of it 1/2 way through it. Quite a scary moment, knowing any brisk ,movement would send me into the ditch. (I was using small block 8s)

Then Donald Trump (or someone high up in his apparatus) made the astounding decision to sponsor a fairly-high level stage race in the northeastern United States.  7-11, Panasonic, and PDM were there as well as the national teams of Russia and Germany.  I was living in Poughkeepsie, NY, at the time, and the finish of the first stage was just over the Hudson River in New Paltz, NY.  The pros rode south from Albany and went over Mohonk “Mountain” before descending into New Paltz for the finish.  Mohonk was a big deal, locally, and featured prominently in the USCF District Championship circuit race course.  American fans who were hoping for a strong showing from either LeMond (returning to racing after his hunting accident) or the slurpee boys were instead introduced to none other than Viatcheslav Ekimov take a sprint from his breakaway companions.  Why do I say all of this?  One of the tidbits that passed around the finish line amongst local racers was the fact that Tomac had descended Mohonk on a flat front tire.  A flat front clincher tire.  Finishing in the pack, yes, but that was some serious skill right there.

Tomac was riding for 7-11 because he won the National Criterium championship the previous year riding basically alone.  He went on to ride in Paris-Roubaix, Ronde van Vlaanderen, and the Giro d’Italia.  A very reputable career on the roads even if we ignore all of his success in the dirt.

@frank Really? Drop bars on Tomac and Jaquie’s bikes were awesome in their own right, but I’ve always thought that the origins of the Graveur come from the Tour and Giro riders going over gravel roads in the Alps and Dolomites; particularly the legendary hardmen of the mid-century like Bottechia and Coppi…

I’ll be the first to point out what fucking legends they were, but those guys were just riding the roads they had. They weren’t doing anything more innovative than just riding their bikes over the highest roads they could find.

The Graveur scene is much more about leaving the paved, high quality roads and looking for something interesting elsewhere while still going fast and far. These are sub-standard roads and often even trails linking sections of a route together – the kinds of roads where even a 27, 28, or 30mm road tire would be woefully inadequate.

That gravel scene is found somewhere between MTB and riding good gravel on a road bike like they do on the Strade Bianche presently. Even on my Graveur loop in Seattle proper I’m riding a mix of tarmac, gravel roads/paths, and singletrack. No way would a road bike handle it. Its fast enough to merit a true road position but technical enough to require wider tires with at least some nobs.

To that end these bikes we’re seeing here in this thread are much closer to where we’re landing now, with super wide tires but still trying to mimic a road bike position somewhat.

As a point of fact, cornering on these in gravel is an interesting experience; when you go in you start to drift until you’ve leaned it over enough that the nobs catch. Then you’re on rails.

Mmmm Attitude….

Here is your bike, and this is the length stem you will ride and this is the angle your bars will be. Don’t like it? Fuck off.

@frank

@Weldertron

@Joey

Picture #12 begs for a rule regarding MTB suspension. The amount of suspension required is inversely proportional to the amount of testicular fortitude possessed by the rider. If you need 6″³ on both ends there is room for only one tiny testicle, whereas anyone sending boulder drops on a few inches up front immediately confirms their mastery of Rule V.

Sorry, but i beg to differ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilqCro2MVU

Not only is that riding incredible, the commentators are TOTALLY worth the watch just to hear them shit themselves completely!

Here’s a version where they show the commentators:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZV7zfMGTg

I love the one guy chugging the beer and then pinching the other guy’s beer. Fucking classic.

I am not a DH MTB fan purely because of those two commentators. If the sport is smart enough to put those two guys behind a microphone, I’m all set.

Charlie has a number of other (more significant) contributions to early mountain bikes:  One of the first guys to weld up heat-treated oversized aluminum tubes into frames, one of the early advocates of a sloping top tube; as part of WTB (Wilderness Trail Bikes) helped invent the Dirt Drop handlebars, the rollercam brake, and Grease Guard hubs.  He’s a player.  Wikipedia says that he designed the RM-20 for Araya and the Ground Control for Specializeed.  I hadn’t known about those.

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Jacquie Phelan – I quess she must be credited (or, rather, Charlie Cunningham should be) for the first Graveur.

WTF kind of stem is on that bike? I have no idea but it’s pretty awesome.

Crazy how long ago the late 80s/early 90s MTB scene seems now. I don’t really follow it now, but it sure had some characters back in the day: Tomac,. Tinker, Ned, Missy, Jackie.

@Chris

@Zman You had me lost after fashion.

I read it again and got as far as the bit about having the correct haircut, which is so wrong. Have you ever tries gelling your hair to look like this?

Anyway, haircuts are irrelevant if you’ve got the right retro cap or Belgian winter hat (obviously the Rapha versions of those are just as good).

exactly

even on the mtn bike, even tho its singlespeed rigid style, i always ride proper, now in 3/4 bib knickers, and cap under helmet, arm warmers when appropriate

however, lets be clear, there is something totally refreshing about throwing the mtn bikes in the back of your rig, running like kiddo’s to the woods/trails, and playing all day, meeting up with friends and kicking one another around. Its carefree. If theres mud, its better, vs the cleaner the better road ride. It helps me regain my love for all things bipedicular to just let it go for a while and not worry about the grit and grime

Good for you! Horses for Courses as they say – you follow the Rules even when not entirely required in the MTB-ing. In the second scenario, you relax and go with the flow/situation. Recharge the batteries and resume Rule compliance when necessary/required.

@Zman You had me lost after fashion.

I read it again and got as far as the bit about having the correct haircut, which is so wrong. Have you ever tries gelling your hair to look like this?

Anyway, haircuts are irrelevant if you’ve got the right retro cap or Belgian winter hat (obviously the Rapha versions of those are just as good).

exactly

even on the mtn bike, even tho its singlespeed rigid style, i always ride proper, now in 3/4 bib knickers, and cap under helmet, arm warmers when appropriate

however, lets be clear, there is something totally refreshing about throwing the mtn bikes in the back of your rig, running like kiddo’s to the woods/trails, and playing all day, meeting up with friends and kicking one another around.  Its carefree.  If theres mud, its better, vs the cleaner the better road ride.  It helps me regain my love for all things bipedicular to just let it go for a while and not worry about the grit and grime

@Weldertron

@Joey

Picture #12 begs for a rule regarding MTB suspension. The amount of suspension required is inversely proportional to the amount of testicular fortitude possessed by the rider. If you need 6″³ on both ends there is room for only one tiny testicle, whereas anyone sending boulder drops on a few inches up front immediately confirms their mastery of Rule V.

Sorry, but i beg to differ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilqCro2MVU

Not only is that riding incredible, the commentators are TOTALLY worth the watch just to hear them shit themselves completely!

Here’s a version where they show the commentators:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZV7zfMGTg

@Zman

“Hey! Zman… making copies! The Zman!!!”

This is my happening and it FREAKS ME OUT!

@wiscot Every two weeks I have what is referred to as “race cut” to make sure the helmet feels right “” and looks right. Shabby hair leads to shabby kit, shoes, legs, tactics, performance, speed… keep your head tuned up.

Exactly.

I read it again and got as far as the bit about having the correct haircut, which is so wrong. Have you ever tries gelling your hair to look like this?

Anyway, haircuts are irrelevant if you’ve got the right retro cap or Belgian winter hat (obviously the Rapha versions of those are just as good).

It seems you guys pay just a bit too much attention yo fashion, and what riders are wearings, especially in The Rules. What’s next, having the correct haircut?

Tomac just showed up at work with his lunch pail, got on his bike, and just rode the wheels off it. No tats, no bullshit, no shit-talking, no dead-fish hanging around his neck. You lot could learn from this.

Rule #5a, “Shut the fuck up and ride your bike”.

Errr . . . hate to burst your wee bubble, but look at the pic of Tomac in the first picture: he has spent considerable time in the barber’s chair getting it cut and styled just so . . . Clearly, Mr Tomac did have what he considered the “correct haircut.”

@Zman

Rule #5a, “Shut the fuck up and ride your bike”.

Should state “Harden the fuck up “when” you ride your bike.” or “Shut the fuck up “while” you ride your bike.”

Then again “wait while” has a completely different meaning in Yorkshire where the signs at level crossings that say “Wait while red lights flash” could have the exact opposite effect to that intended.

Rule #5a, “Shut the fuck up and ride your bike”.

Should state “Harden the fuck up “when” you ride your bike.” or “Shut the fuck up “while” you ride your bike.”

“Hey! Zman… making copies! The Zman!!!”

Thank-you VERY much for that clip. Just watched it for the third time and I’m laughing more than ever. Insane ride at the height of Rule #9. I’m so impressed the commentators didn’t swear.

11 seconds quicker than 2nd place. INSANE.

It seems you guys pay just a bit too much attention yo fashion, and what riders are wearings, especially in The Rules. What’s next, having the correct haircut?

Tomac just showed up at work with his lunch pail, got on his bike, and just rode the wheels off it. No tats, no bullshit, no shit-talking, no dead-fish hanging around his neck. You lot could learn from this.

Rule #5a, “Shut the fuck up and ride your bike”.

I pay so much attention to fashion and coffee because I spend so much time waiting for people like you.

Anyone else remember the Pedal Pusher buyer’s guide? A thick tome with fantastically detailed descriptions of thousands of shiny bits. I think I still have one somewhere but I can’t seem to find it. That was my reference manual for years.

absolutely

great one Brett

here in the frigid midwest, I have to admit this is my mtn bike season.  There are so many reasons why to mtn bike, but that is off tangent

those were all good days guys, gear that was not quite that good, bikes that didn’t quite fit, shocks that didn’t quite absorb like you expected, tires that didn’t quite hook up, brakes that didn’t quite slow you down….it was all good

Tinker, BTW, is that real.  He really did pack and go on those exploits, and at the races, was super casually deliberate, really it was hard to believe he was PRO, as he is so cool and approachable, like a dude you know?

It seems you guys pay just a bit too much attention yo fashion, and what riders are wearings, especially in The Rules. What’s next, having the correct haircut?

If you’re Maxim Iglinsky then, yes…

Tomac just showed up at work with his lunch pail, got on his bike, and just rode the wheels off it. No tats, no bullshit, no shit-talking, no dead-fish hanging around his neck. You lot could learn from this.

Rule #5a, “Shut the fuck up and ride your bike”.

@panarchy

GOLD. This thread is GOLD!

No, it’s ANODIZED PURPLE.

Plus one to that lady!

Anyone for some Carbon-fiber wrapped aluminum?

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My dad still has that group; he had it on a Cannondale Boinger (first gen rear sus with Rock Shox) and the combination performed so poorly it should have earned permanent residence on the Island of Misfit Bikes.

Right next to this:

That was the first and last MTB race for me – there was no need to see another.

Ahhhh the Campa MTB groupset…… about the only thing that nearly tempted me to try MTBing. Beautifully made, horiffically expensive, iirc almost as costly as C-Record but there were no other ensembles in their MTB range hence no “cheaper” options. And I had enough trouble paying for my road addiction without chasing that off-road dragon….

My dad still has that group; he had it on a Cannondale Boinger (first gen rear sus with Rock Shox) and the combination performed so poorly it should have earned permanent residence on the Island of Misfit Bikes.

Beatiful to look at; I remember installing it for him the day it showed up at the house and I stripped the FD clamp screw just like that. Pulled out of there with that amazing Campa alu hugging every thread on the screw. I’ll remember that moment for ever.

GOLD. This thread is GOLD!

No, it’s ANODIZED PURPLE.

I was breaking Rule #17 before it was cool.

Tomac had this way of pedalling in the big dog, sliding and pushing the rear all-at-once with a grace that was hard to believe.  Before discs! Finesse and brutal force combined.  I’m not sure it is fast by today’s standards but it was entertaining! Oh, and he seemed pretty nice off the bike too.

@Nate

@frank

@Weldertron

@Joey

Picture #12 begs for a rule regarding MTB suspension. The amount of suspension required is inversely proportional to the amount of testicular fortitude possessed by the rider. If you need 6″³ on both ends there is room for only one tiny testicle, whereas anyone sending boulder drops on a few inches up front immediately confirms their mastery of Rule V.

Sorry, but i beg to differ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilqCro2MVU

Not only is that riding incredible, the commentators are TOTALLY worth the watch just to hear them shit themselves completely!

Hilarious. But he needs to raise his saddle.

It’s that low to clear the metric fuckton of balls he’s carrying around.

I’ll say.  By the end he must have been gassed yet he still has the cahones to throw it sideways in the air as he approaches the finish??  Judging by the technicality of the course there must have been some primo wipe-outs.  Then the commentators would definitely have a thrombo!