@Dinan Carbon clinchers have a place. If a rider uses them properly.

My brother in-law sent me this article about an hour ago. I thought I would share it here with this article/discussion as it may be interesting to others…

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/03/bikes-and-tech/the-torqued-wrench/the-torqued-wrench-taking-on-the-carbon-clincher_277711

-Dinan

VeloNews posted this shortly after I made my previous post…

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/03/news/mavics-all-new-cosmic-carbone-40c-the-first-safe-carbon-clincher_277775

-Dinan

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/03/bikes-and-tech/the-torqued-wrench/the-torqued-wrench-taking-on-the-carbon-clincher_277711

-Dinan

-Dinan

not so sure about your technique there with the scales, the LBS scales, cos there’re real accurate as well…

Yeah yeah, but the old Raleigh behind it still looks better…

Took the #1 out today for the first time since Hawaii and swung by the LBS. Weighed ‘er. 6.8 kg with bidon and computer. Pulled those off and was amazed to see my 61cm 2006 Cervelo R3 weighed in at a scant 6.4kg (14.12 pounds). Amazing.

[dmalbum: path=”/velominati.com/wp-content/uploads/readers/frank/2013.03.09.05.15.04/1/”/]

Any luck on shipping options for the “tested by @frank” wheels that would “make me a better climber” to Aus…

@Dan_R

Okay, just ordered my two Excellight SSC rims…..tension mounts

Sweet! Well played Trebeck.

Okay, just ordered my two Excellight SSC rims…..tension mounts

no point now…… I’m such a loser

It looks like the Virgin Mother came down and pukes a whole lotta awesome in the studio!

Tough job.

bp;;pcks – just found out she is going out with George North – don’t see things working out in my favour

@eenies

@Dr C

By the way, we have a new Queen Vic….. isn’t she adorable?

Double VVorld champion… Victoria who?

I’ve just left my wife for Becci (neither know about this yet, so give me a bit of time and I’ll update)

Awesome news, old chap! Will we now see your strava times go up as your new VMH drags you round the course?

@Dr C

By the way, we have a new Queen Vic….. isn’t she adorable?

Double VVorld champion… Victoria who?

I’ve just left my wife for Becci (neither know about this yet, so give me a bit of time and I’ll update)

I had forgotten about Excellence rims, but if you can get some Excellights w/36h, grab ’em up. When ever I can get Excellights, I like to pic some up – regardless of what is in the order queue. I understand wanting to ride different rims for the experience. My personal fleet of wheels (right now) include Mavics, Ambrosio, DT Swiss, KinLin, my own carbon, Velocity, Shimano, and Campagnolo Pista. Yeah, I have a few on the go at any given time, one of the perks/expenses of my new profession.

@itburns Nice. I am a diagram guy. Yes you need to draw a picture for me. I almost get that one.

By the way, we have a new Queen Vic….. isn’t she adorable?

Double VVorld champion… Victoria who?

@frank

@tessar

.The steeper the climb or the longer the climb, the more it matters.

Something like this. My apologies, but this discussion made me remember free body diagrams and someone had to pay.

There are a lot of lines on there, and I didn’t spend any time figuring out Gianni’s formulas, but I assume they all mean I’m right. If they don’t, then the Maths just haven’t caught up to the notion that the usual models don’t apply because of the deceleration between pedal revs.

Which means I’m still (a) Dutch and (b) right. (I know that’s redundant but it feels better to have two points.)

@Dr C I echo the recommendation on the Excellights. I love building with them and Ambrosio’s QC is much better than Mavic’s.

Well I’ll be damned, despite the Ambrosio website saying they don’t do 36h rims, SJS cycles http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/ambrosio-excellight-700c-(622)-rim-prod29195/ are advertising them! Time to investigate…. (£44 vs £69 per hoop. buut might be worth it for the V cool factor!)

@tessar

.The steeper the climb or the longer the climb, the more it matters.

Something like this.  My apologies, but this discussion made me remember free body diagrams and someone had to pay.

thanks for the link chap – interesting read – they aren’t fans of the Mavic OP – I see the Ambrosio have 36 in the Excellence – will research that some more

@Dan_R

my good wheels are on DT Swiss rims and hubs, so thought I’d try something different to see what I can learn – seem to be so many conflicting reports, I may just go for the prettiest ones!!

I looked at the Ambrosio’s, but they are twice the price and as I am a bit of a fat lad, I thought I’d better go 36 on the back – Ambrosio only go to 32 – hubs already bought – maybe if I lose a few stone I’ll get a 32 freewheel hub in 2 years and lace 32/32 – meantime I am a  bit restricted with my 36 rear hub

Thanks for your thoughts chaps – will keep you posted

@Skip

Not as much as I will miss joining you all – added entertainment of this year’s races is rewinding the climbs to spot the V-drunkards sitting in the trees, and the pointlessly tall one draping the big flag over Tomeke’s bars on the Kwaremont! Have a fine trip – not that far off….

@Dr C

I think I can show that the optimal rate of flexion and extension actually propels the pedal forward at position ⨕ of the stroke.

Internet porn; power in the stroke. Why, it’s a natural progression.

Anyone got any other suggestions – it’s for my 2012 Roubaix Expert with Ultegra 6700 groupset and brakes – clinchers, not ready for tubs….or should I make that leap too?

Go for full carbone clinchers, our “pros” above can’t glue thier tubs without a bulge at the valve, why even bother? Tubulars are  great nostalgia, but modern lightweight tubes and clincher tyres are awesome matched up to 303’s or “heavy” 404’s and will rock your world, haven’t had the pleasure of the Haleakala’s but they look the business too!

Great news, they don’t have the Dura Ace hubs they thought they had sold me at Tweeks, so am going for the Ultegra, 32 front, 36 back, which leaves me some mullah to spend on the other bits

Aim is for stiff set up, as am 87kg (should be 76kg in approximately 2 years time) and need some help on the climbs – what rims should I be looking at – currently my favoured choice is a pair of Mavic Open Pros

Anyone got any other suggestions – it’s for my 2012 Roubaix Expert with Ultegra 6700 groupset and brakes – clinchers, not ready for tubs….or should I make that leap too?

If you’re looking for light rims, here is a link to an overview of several light weight (not Lightweight) options from Fairwheel Bikes: http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/products/2013-rim-roundup.html. They also have overwiews of lightweight skewers, hubs, etc.

If I were building new clincher rims I might go for Ambrosio Excellights.  Roughly the same weight as Open Pros but something you don’t see every day.

Gonna miss you in Belgium.

I think I can show that the optimal rate of flexion and extension actually propels the pedal forward at position ⨕ of the stroke.

is it not more of a question of how quickly do they return to unbent that defines their quality?

How much *do* carbon crank arms flex?

Likewise this wheel evaluation. These are cool, cool wheels for sure. Are they for me? Dunno. But it sure is cool to hear about them. Kinda like internet porn: someone sure is having a good time, and it is fun to think about doing that myself, but I’m not sure what it would mean to the rest of my life.

Nominate this quote for the jersey.  Friggin’ brilliant.

@Chris

@Fausto My thoughts exactly, I wish I could go that quickly on the flat.

Pantani looks like he’s gone round the corner at 1:20 so quickly he’s almost gone into the wall on the way out.

As I recall, this was the era of Pantani using his brakes on climbs like this. Its a shame he’s not around to offer thoughts about instantaeous acceleration vectors or even the application of Bernoulli’s principle to rim profiles.

Maybe he was working on slingshot principle vectorisation as a way to coalesce the contrarotational decelerative exponentialization factor of the last corner – how can he go that fast up a mountain that big, it’s just silly

Aim is for stiff set up, as am 87kg (should be 76kg in approximately 2 years time) and need some help on the climbs – what rims should I be looking at – currently my favoured choice is a pair of Mavic Open Pros

Anyone got any other suggestions – it’s for my 2012 Roubaix Expert with Ultegra 6700 groupset and brakes – clinchers, not ready for tubs….or should I make that leap too?

Surely Velominati everywhere have seen the VeloNews article on analysis of chain lubes. The sole variable to be quantified was “what lube offers least power loss?” And then we argue over what the results imply to each of us.

Likewise this wheel evaluation. These are cool, cool wheels for sure. Are they for me? Dunno. But it sure is cool to hear about them. Kinda like internet porn: someone sure is having a good time, and it is fun to think about doing that myself, but I’m not sure what it would mean to the rest of my life.

@Fausto My thoughts exactly, I wish I could go that quickly on the flat.

Pantani looks like he’s gone round the corner at 1:20 so quickly he’s almost gone into the wall on the way out.

As I recall, this was the era of Pantani using his brakes on climbs like this.  Its a shame he’s not around to offer thoughts about instantaeous acceleration vectors or even the application of Bernoulli’s principle to rim profiles.

@Barracuda

Im not a climber, but I love climbing, if that makes sense. The photos of the rims look very nice and, well, carbony!! Whats a set of those clincher style weigh and hit the wallet for landed in Aus @Dan_R ?

The clincher will come in around the low 1100s, I think. But the rub is that I have been trying to find a good shipping option for both the UK and Australia. Canada Post and FedEx are both too much, due to the box and the declared value I guess.

If anybody has any ideas, I am open to suggestions. I sell my carbon wheels for $1400 & $1500 respectively, and I want to keep overall cost below $2k for overseas customers.

Keep me posted ….  love the look of the carbon layup on @franks ‘s Volcano destroying beasts

@Jeff in PetroMetro

My Haleakalas just left Grand Forks, ND about 2 hours ago, according to FedEx. Ooooooo, I.Can.Not.Wait!!! Thanks Dan_R!!!

My pleasure. I am nearly as excited as you! Nearly. I have been busy and  we have an number of wheels in stock now for the opening. It is like walking around in a candy store!

@scaler911

Them is sexy I must say. Can one have too many wheels? Been eyeing Golden Tickets, but these are mighty tempting.

What do we need to do to push you over the edge!

@Barracuda

Im not a climber, but I love climbing, if that makes sense. The photos of the rims look very nice and, well, carbony!! Whats a set of those clincher style weigh and hit the wallet for landed in Aus @Dan_R ?

The clincher will come in around the low 1100s, I think. But the rub is that I have been trying to find a good shipping option for both the UK and Australia. Canada Post and FedEx are both too much, due to the box and the declared value I guess.

If anybody has any ideas, I am open to suggestions. I sell my carbon wheels for $1400 & $1500 respectively, and I want to keep overall cost below $2k for overseas customers.

@Gianni

I touched my aluminum front clincher rim today after a steep descent, too hot to touch for more than a half second. What does that mean? Carbone wheels won’t work, clincher or tubs? And yet, jets use carbon fiber disc brakes. Maybe heat is not a massive issue, it surely must not conduct away so well.

@Dan_R or anyone else, thoughts?

OK, I will step in here. Yup as Nate said, alum does a great job dissipating heat. In fact Shimano is building a lightweight rotor for the dirt crowd that sandwiches aluminum between steel. Crazy shit man, completely awesome too. But that is carbon too. What I mean is, try to find real technical numbers on carbon fiber and you are SOL. That is because you can make it do whatever you want it to do. They make friggen airplane out of the stuff. Including super secret fighter jets. And disc brakes. Carbon is like every other rim materiel. If you ride your brakes down the mountain, things are going to get sporty, but if you treat your gear properly and ride it like you are supposed to most stuff out there will work as it should. We all hear the horrible stories of carbon failures, but perspective is everything. Riding bikes is fun.

And there is a lot of cool stuff out there.

Pantani looks like he’s gone round the corner at 1:20 so quickly he’s almost gone into the wall on the way out.

@tessar

Finally, just a note: It may come of as serious and overly important, but that’s just because nit-picking into bike-related details is fun. I’m not a serious person.

Don’t sweat it, nothing like a good argument to get the juices flowing. And contrary to what ol’ Gianni says, I don’t mind being wrong. Its just really hard to convince me I’m wrong. Which I’m not.

You were wrong once, but then you realised you were mistaken.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/10/scientists-suggest-beer-after-workout/

Not sure if its been posted previously, but makes sense to me, I think, better have a beer a decide.

@Gianni before you start up with all that, can you please explain how the circle peg fits into that triangle hole? please?

@Gianni

Uhhhh … what the …?

I’m not around much for a few months, and all youse guys is turned into effin’ geniuses or sumptin.

I don’t buy it – I think it’s a glitch in the matrix.

Great video though, I’d forgotten just how damn fast pros used to go up hills in the Top Fuel era. Beautiful, if not a little terrifying.

top drawer on the spoke count!

@Chris

@Dr C Jesus, you’ll be elected official club time keeper or record keeper if you carry on like that? Are you growing a beard as well.

There’s only one solution: up the doses on your self medication, tell your colleagues you’re off to an important conference in Lille at the end of march or there abouts and come and rattle the fuck out of your brain until normal function is resumed.

Maybe all that banging around on the stones last year has caused all my ongoing mental problems – I’ll wait until 2014 for some smoother tarmac – so long as the Keepers Tour isn’t to Belfast for the start of the Giro….

@tessar

The reason I consider climbing accelerating is that’s basically what you’re doing uphill. Your bike wants to go back downhill, and unless you have a perfect stroke (I don’t) you are constantly accelerating your bike with every turn of the pedals. In climbing, I don’t think there is any such thing as actually maintaining a constant speed (probably not on the flats either, but you certainly get closer). And, the steeper the climb, the more pronounced this effect is as your bike basically jerks its way uphill.

The steeper the climb or the longer the climb, the more it matters.

Fuck me that clip is inspiring….makes me want to go out and just crush it!!   37 mins for a 14k+ climb.    Piuma is an average 6% at just over 6k and it takes me 37 mins….on a good day.   
Nobody has really talked about stiffness being a big factor.  My climbing wheels are 500g less in weight than my “training wheels”  which are complete noodles and it sure feels like the stiffness is at least as much of a factor.

to my point

Mathematically, instantaneous acceleration””acceleration over an infinitesimal interval of time””is the rate of change of velocity over time:

i.e., the derivative of the velocity vector as a function of time.
(Here and elsewhere, if motion is in a straight line, vector quantities can be substituted by scalars in the equations.)

Average acceleration over a period of time is the change in velocity divided by the duration of the period

boom.

Your calculations are correct Gianni (I just looked it up on Youtube)

Uhhhh … what the …?

I’m not around much for a few months, and all youse guys is turned into effin’ geniuses or sumptin.

Finally, just a note: It may come of as serious and overly important, but that’s just because nit-picking into bike-related details is fun. I’m not a serious person.

Don’t sweat it, nothing like a good argument to get the juices flowing. And contrary to what ol’ Gianni says, I don’t mind being wrong. Its just really hard to convince me I’m wrong. Which I’m not.

Yeah, seeing Virenque crack is a beautiful sight. Pantani was at the height if his powers right there. Hematocrit at 49.99.

@frank Brilliant way to win…the Pantani argument. Baboooosch.

to my point

Mathematically, instantaneous acceleration””acceleration over an infinitesimal interval of time””is the rate of change of velocity over time:

 i.e., the derivative of the velocity vector as a function of time.
(Here and elsewhere, if motion is in a straight line, vector quantities can be substituted by scalars in the equations.)

Average acceleration over a period of time is the change in velocity  divided by the duration of the period 

Loved seeing the ultimate twatwaffle Virenque blow in the corner.  BAM, lights out.

The reason I consider climbing accelerating is that’s basically what you’re doing uphill. Your bike wants to go back downhill, and unless you have a perfect stroke (I don’t) you are constantly accelerating your bike with every turn of the pedals. In climbing, I don’t think there is any such thing as actually maintaining a constant speed (probably not on the flats either, but you certainly get closer). And, the steeper the climb, the more pronounced this effect is as your bike basically jerks its way uphill.

The steeper the climb or the longer the climb, the more it matters.

I’m using them for the Gran Fondo NY in May. .

Need a DS? @cal did it last year and knows from cycling.  I did it the year before and don’t know shit.  Give a holler if you come early for a recon ride.

@tessar When climbing though, because one has to overcome the constant deceleration of gravity one needs to be constantly accelerating to maintain constant speed. When coming back down the hill, except if you’ve reached terminal velocity, one has to constantly decelerate to keep speed constant (brake).

This.

@Gianni

@tessar

Both of these facts mean that any time you’re riding at a constant speed, you’re combatting both of those forces, which effectively can be viewed as constantly accelerating

Don’t worry about Frank, he is dutch and hates to be wrong. Riding at near steady effort is not the same as accelerating either on the flat or up a slope. I’ll stop there and say I agree with the mechanical engineer.

WHO’S SIDE ARE YOU ON HERE?

Both of these facts mean that any time you’re riding at a constant speed, you’re combatting both of those forces, which effectively can be viewed as constantly accelerating

Don’t worry about Frank, he is dutch and hates to be wrong. Riding at near steady effort is not the same as accelerating either on the flat or up a slope. I’ll stop there and say I agree with the mechanical engineer.

Obviously, I know they’re not exactly the same. My budgetatus “climbing” wheels may be humble 1600g wheels, but it’s the same weight-delta between them and my training bricks as between your Zipps and Hakeakalas. The difference in feel is marked, however any difference in time would more likely be down to worn out shit hubs, heavy-duty tyres and, well, the extra 500g I’m lugging around than just the difference in rim weight. As soon as I put in an extra surge – of course the lighter hoops respond better. But surging is a no-no when it comes to time-trialling, regardless of terrain.

Finally, just a note: It may come of as serious and overly important, but that’s just because nit-picking into bike-related details is fun. I’m not a serious person.

VVLV

@Dr C

However, I am now building my own wheels, (dura ace 7900 hubs no less) and spent about three hours researching the matter online the other day, as part of my post -ride recovery process

I notice your wheels have only ? 22 spokes at front and ?22 on back? what effect does this have on stiffness? Did you intentionally select so few spokes (I appear to have gravitated to the 36/32 3x camp, don’t reinvent the wheel Evangelista)? Or is it bin all the weight you possibly can without the rim collapsing?

Have you sourced the materials yet for your wheels? If not, the moment you do is the moment you’ll realize that the spokes are by far the heaviest part of your wheels. The most effective way to drop wheel weight is to reduce the number of spokes. I remember hedging our bets on how stiff the wheel would be with fewer spokes; I’d have to double check what we wound up with, but 22 sounds right. The wheels are laced up very tight, but they are plenty stiff.

My favorite wheels by far at this point.

 

While I know we never let facts get in the way of a good story, but clarification for the readers: front is 20hole and rear is 24 hole.  but what that boils down to is 22 avg front and 22 avg rear.  so maybe both of ya’ll just split the difference right off the bat.  i like that kinda math.

Congratulations on passing your exams. Strong work, chappy.

First off, lighten up. This is humor, not science or fact or probably even amusing or informative. I would have thought  referred to Gravity as an asshole might have suggested that. On the other hand, I did refer to the acceleration which the force of gravity causes an object to be subjected to. Drop something and you’ll see what I’m talking about. We refer to this as the Acceleration of Gravity, and people smarter than me have worked that out to be 9.8 m/s2.

If you’ve been paying attention in your classes, you will understand what the coefficient of friction is, and that even if something is blocking something else from falling at any given moment, gravity is still exerting the same pull on that object. Thats why you’re not floating away right now.

The coefficient of friction together with the bike plus your body’s friction with the air (which we call wind resistance) is what will make your bike stop rolling forward once you stop pedaling.

The force of gravity is what will make your bike roll back down the hill once you stop pedaling.

Both of these facts mean that any time you’re riding at a constant speed, you’re combatting both of those forces, which effectively can be viewed as constantly accelerating.

Finally, with all due respect, your classroom can’t adequately demonstrate the difference between climbing wheels and deep dish wheels. Go out and compare them, and you’ll immediately realize that your teachers are not always right.

Cheers.

However, I am now building my own wheels, (dura ace 7900 hubs no less) and spent about three hours researching the matter online the other day, as part of my post -ride recovery process

I notice your wheels have only ? 22 spokes at front and ?22 on back? what effect does this have on stiffness? Did you intentionally select so few spokes (I appear to have gravitated to the 36/32 3x camp, don’t reinvent the wheel Evangelista)? Or is it bin all the weight you possibly can without the rim collapsing?

Have you sourced the materials yet for your wheels? If not, the moment you do is the moment you’ll realize that the spokes are by far the heaviest part of your wheels. The most effective way to drop wheel weight is to reduce the number of spokes. I remember hedging our bets on how stiff the wheel would be with fewer spokes; I’d have to double check what we wound up with, but 22 sounds right. The wheels are laced up very tight, but they are plenty stiff.

My favorite wheels by far at this point.

@Chris

@Dr C Jesus, you’ll be elected official club time keeper or record keeper if you carry on like that? Are you growing a beard as well.

There’s only one solution: up the doses on your self medication, tell your colleagues you’re off to an important conference in Lille at the end of march or there abouts and come and rattle the fuck out of your brain until normal function is resumed.

A PLUS FUCKING ONE.

Wait, are you guys talking about using your brakes? I thought they were just there to meet regulations.

@pistard

@frank How about some two colour symbol packs in Black & White? I have an orange frame that needs some decals but the orange cog would disappear.

You’ll have to stick with one color packs, then – our logo is designed to either be one color or with an orange cog. The Cog may not be any other color in a mult-color scenario. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

1. Biology-Physics double major – averaging 8 lecture-hours a day. I do my reading on the turbo.

2. Obviously, no climb is steady-state – but most of us are not quite Contador either. I never doubted a light rim is better than a heavier rim, but at the same time, it’s not the defining metric of a wheel, either. All other things being equal, a lighter rim is an improvement, but consider that the extra weight we just accelerated carries with it more momentum which, in turn, slows down the rate of deceleration. A lighter rim will slow down quicker, too, when that rider fatigue breaks the pace. The point is that the defining force we’re fighting against is total weight – rider, bike, rim, everything. Every other effect basically self-cancels to a degree (again, never perfectly).

3. You’d be surprised how many pro bikes still hover around 7kg. Quite a few sites do profile pieces on the bikes, and only few are bang on the limit. A lot of them ride aluminium components, SRMs, somewhat-padded saddles. It adds up to weight that, in the mountains, you can shave at the wheel. Also, the pros do attack and change rhythm in the mountains explosively. They also tend to do that on the flats. Lately, quite a few pro teams rode higher-profile wheels in the mountains, too. Campag’s Bora is not shallow…

@Nate

@Chris

@Nate Agreed, it’s bad enough realising you’ve ended up with the label on the non-drive side.

Is it common practice to pull your tubs off every now and then and re-glue them?

I have glued them up the wrong side. This especially sucks on the rear, and is likely to happen in direct proportion to the amount of ale consumed to counteract glue fumes. One can generally flipflop the front wheel, but it does look a bit suspect if on one wheel “AMBROSIO” is rightsideup and on the other upsidedown.

I wouldn’t pull off and reglue unless it looked like there were problems with the bond in the first place.

Oh yeah, I’ve done this.  Such a pisser to finish gluing and then realize that the tread direction and arrows on the sidewalls are pointing in the wrong direction!

My Haleakalas just left Grand Forks, ND about 2 hours ago, according to FedEx. Ooooooo, I.Can.Not.Wait!!! Thanks Dan_R!!!

Too cool!

But Grand Forks, ND???  What’s in Grand Forks?  I know that when my VMH was in the Air Force and stationed there, there was not much of anything there!  At least East Grand Forks across the river had the Blue Moose restaurant.

1. Whilst reaching your finals (lots of study to be a mechanic?) it appears you may still be in need of more punching up at school.

2. Show me a 4 hour climb that is all “steady state” climbing and I will show you the Easter bunny. Even with a perfect & mythical constant gradient, there will be changes in pace and accelerations due to rider fatigue. So yes at those moments a lower moment of inertia in a lighter rim will be an advantage, however small.

3. If that wasn’t the case then with a 6.8kg weight limit why wouldn’t riders always opt for the most aero rims to use that advantage on descents?

The VMH might not be so happy with a string of evenings and no face time, but the alternative is not pleasant either.

Never loved the look of Tall Carbone wheels, but darn, low profile Carbones look beautiful. Really darn nice & I look forward to picking up a pair when the Budgetatus gets closer to fVVl.

Gravity is a force. It’s not an acceleration. As forces tend to do, if applied, acceleration will be the result.

Secondly, when one is riding steady-state – be it flat time-trialling or steady-state climbing (which is what is described in the article) – there’s no change in velocity, ergo no tangential acceleration occurring  In that case, assuming equal total system weight, it doesn’t matter if you have 2kg training wheels or 900g lightweights as both have the same total amount of force acting on the system, which is what matters. Feel will be different, but not overall performance for this type of riding.

A lighter wheel helps in: A) Reducing overall weight, which is always good, and B) Reducing unsprung rotating mass, which is very nice if you’re cornering or accelerating.

Thirdly, as Velocity = Radial Velocity X Radius, unless your hubs are gargantuan, the rim spins far faster than twice the velocity of a spinning hub. But raw velocity has to do with aerodynamics more than acceleration. Even more important is the moment of inertia, which is linearly proportional to mass yet proportional to the square of the radius – which is, again, why the rim weight is important when turning and accelerating.

Unless one is playing with Contador-esque changes of rhythm, there’s no real advantage to the rim specifically being lighter. If I could only remove 400g from my bike, yes, I’d do it at the rim, but given the choice between a 7kg bike with ultralight tubulars or a 6.8kg bike with regular, maybe even aero-profile rims (weight-savings done elsewhere), I know which one I’m choosing for a time-trial up the Alps.

Last, all of the above is to be ignored – that is one sexy wheel.

@frank

@Nate

@Chris

@Nate Agreed, it’s bad enough realising you’ve ended up with the label on the non-drive side.

Is it common practice to pull your tubs off every now and then and re-glue them?

I have glued them up the wrong side. This especially sucks on the rear, and is likely to happen in direct proportion to the amount of ale consumed to counteract glue fumes. One can generally flipflop the front wheel, but it does look a bit suspect if on one wheel “AMBROSIO” is rightsideup and on the other upsidedown.

I wouldn’t pull off and reglue unless it looked like there were problems with the bond in the first place. Of course, running Corsas, I tend to get a puncture before I have to worry about the glue aging.

I’m about to take mine off the Haleakalas and re-glue them. I always get a bulge at the valve stem and the guy who runs Cascade Bicycle Studio suggested that I cinch a toe-clip strap over the valve stem area when they are drying as a way to counter that.

I will report on the success of that when I try it. If it works. I’m re-gluing all my tubs. Which right now is just one other set, come to think of it.

What’s a toe clip strap?

There’s only one solution: up the doses on your self medication, tell your colleagues you’re off to an important conference in Lille at the end of march or there abouts and come and rattle the fuck out of your brain until normal function is resumed.

@Nate

@Chris

@Nate Agreed, it’s bad enough realising you’ve ended up with the label on the non-drive side.

Is it common practice to pull your tubs off every now and then and re-glue them?

I have glued them up the wrong side. This especially sucks on the rear, and is likely to happen in direct proportion to the amount of ale consumed to counteract glue fumes. One can generally flipflop the front wheel, but it does look a bit suspect if on one wheel “AMBROSIO” is rightsideup and on the other upsidedown.

I wouldn’t pull off and reglue unless it looked like there were problems with the bond in the first place. Of course, running Corsas, I tend to get a puncture before I have to worry about the glue aging.

I’m about to take mine off the Haleakalas and re-glue them. I always get a bulge at the valve stem and the guy who runs Cascade Bicycle Studio suggested that I cinch a toe-clip strap over the valve stem area when they are drying as a way to counter that.

I will report on the success of that when I try it. If it works. I’m re-gluing all my tubs. Which right now is just one other set, come to think of it.

What’s a toe clip strap?

Something terrible has happened to me – no longer, it seems, am I the facetious immature joker, who always sees the stupid in anything clever, and sits in the midle of the cafe slagging everyone off about the state of their nipples, but I appear to have started boring people about the technical aspects of cycling – is this incurable, as I am now sitting at the edge of the room talking secretively to old people?

I feel that despite coming second in the TdF last year with my ridiculous suggestion of a Wiggo Froomie 1-2, and I must complement the De Feet kit – they are the Cyclcist’s Ideal (sorry, Cat’s Cahunas, see what I mean) – I really know fuck all about cycling

However, I am now building my own wheels, (dura ace 7900 hubs no less) and spent about three hours researching the matter online the other day, as part of my post -ride recovery process

I notice your wheels have only ? 22 spokes at front and ?22 on back? what effect does this have on stiffness? Did you intentionally select so few spokes (I appear to have gravitated to the 36/32 3x camp, don’t reinvent the wheel Evangelista)? Or is it bin all the weight you possibly can without the rim collapsing?

On a more interesting note, I am now excremetially depressed by the re-discovery that gravity is of course acceleration, which I had forgotten about. It does explain how when one  drops speed on a climb, the initial fade is increasingly rapidly (double adverb = exponential) succeeded by a reversion to stop speed, and this is a factor of weight, if my senility allows me to understand – therefore, we’re all fucked

@frank  How about some two colour symbol packs in Black & White? I have an orange frame that needs some decals but the orange cog would disappear.

You get what you pay for. And apparently what you’re paying for is Francios flying back and forth to South America to suck the rubber out of the trees one mouthful at a time.

Massive chuckle here over that one as I suck down barley wine one mouthful at a time.

@Dan_R or anyone else, thoughts?

@Jeff in PetroMetro They have hills in Houston?

Majestic parking garages.

I’m using them for the Gran Fondo NY in May.  AND, I’m feeling a tad weight weenie-ish.  So I’m being a bit self-indulgent.

@graham d.m. Climbing wheels — all relative but I’d say they begin in the 1300 gr range.

@roger With all the shit on the roads in your neck of the woods I would’t dream of running Corsas, SC or otherwise.

Next set of tubulars I glue up will probably be Veloflex Arenbergs.

Them is sexy I must say. Can one have too many wheels? Been eyeing Golden Tickets, but these are mighty tempting.

Are you a hardman or a weight weenie?  The answer might help you decide.

@Nate the gumwall corsa sc is insanely soft. I fear looking at it with a smirk would surely cut it open. i have them stretching but its unlikely ill glue them up. I took a look at fmb p-r pros and they are $165 a pop. Needless to say i skipped right over them and ordered a set of veloflex carbons and roubaixs for nearly the same price.

Ture enough, but no tire rides like a FMB Roubaix. I have the Veloflex carbons on my Haleakalas (pictured) and they are supple and great, but they are like wooden slats compared to the Roubaixs. You get what you pay for. And apparently what you’re paying for is Francios flying back and forth to South America to suck the rubber out of the trees one mouthful at a time.

@frank how much of a bulge is there? I cant for the life of me seem to glue a set on and not have some sort of irregularity at the valve. I’ve come to accept it as it is and try to lessen it as much as possible, but given the extra material there, and that the valve hole area is not recessed, there is always going to be a little lump present. Waiting for oli or tubularetommy to stfu and learn how to properly mount a tub

Just a bit. I have it on all tires I glue and others seem to as well. If you’re riding a lower pressure (CX) it is irrelevant and I’ve not been bothered by it on my Roubaixs on the Ambrosios I built. BUT, on the Haleakalas, I feel it. They’re so fucking light, you can feel everything.

That said, a tublar – especially a hand-made one – will always be less regular than a clincher. They have a life of their own and that’s part of the beauty. @mauibike drills out the first hole in the rim a tad to make room for the valve and that’s genius but I’m afraid I’d fuck it up. I’m trying the toe-strap next and then we’ll take it from there.

I’m sure smarter people with more tubular experience have better things to add.

@all : I know lighter is better for climbing wheels, but what is the minimum weight to truly be considered climbing wheels?

Lighter than what you got.

See also: weight weenies.

Seriously, though, what you’re after is a wheel that spins up well which normally equates to light rims. The rims are spinning about twice as fast as the hubs, so keep that in mind. My Zipp 404’s are clinchers with alu rims and I now understand why people complain that they don’t accelerate well. Even my Café Roubaix CX wheels with a 3x spoke pattern and CX tires feel more sprightly when accelerating than those.

Overall weight is not that critical, I’d say, though it helps (you’re still carrying the weight uphill). But a light rim and heavy hub is not nearly as big a deal because the hub is spinning half as fast as the rim. I’d take carbon tubulars laced to lead hubs over lead rims laced to carbon hubs, lets put it that way.

And to actually answer your question, I think a climbing wheel is typically just the lightest wheel you own.

@frank how much of a bulge is there?  I cant for the life of me seem to glue a set on and not have some sort of irregularity at the valve.  I’ve come to accept it as it is and try to lessen it as much as possible, but given the extra material there, and that the valve hole area is not recessed, there is always going to be a little lump present.  Waiting for oli or tubularetommy to stfu and learn how to properly mount a tub

@Dan_R

And I love’d makin’ em. Pas un grimpeur? You looked lean to me when we met a few weeks back, but I am a trackie. Maybe if you lost 2kgs?

I love that you called me skinny and Too Fat To Climb in one paragraph.

For me to be a real grimpeur, I’d have to shrink-wrap myself. Like those little things you bake in the oven as a kid.

Shrinky Dinks.  I don’t know why I felt compelled to share that.

@Chris

@Nate Agreed, it’s bad enough realising you’ve ended up with the label on the non-drive side.

Is it common practice to pull your tubs off every now and then and re-glue them?

I have glued them up the wrong side. This especially sucks on the rear, and is likely to happen in direct proportion to the amount of ale consumed to counteract glue fumes. One can generally flipflop the front wheel, but it does look a bit suspect if on one wheel “AMBROSIO” is rightsideup and on the other upsidedown.

I wouldn’t pull off and reglue unless it looked like there were problems with the bond in the first place. Of course, running Corsas, I tend to get a puncture before I have to worry about the glue aging.

I’m about to take mine off the Haleakalas and re-glue them. I always get a bulge at the valve stem and the guy who runs Cascade Bicycle Studio suggested that I cinch a toe-clip strap over the valve stem area when they are drying as a way to counter that.

I will report on the success of that when I try it. If it works. I’m re-gluing all my tubs. Which right now is just one other set, come to think of it.

@frank

Did you notice the sweet V-Lion symbol? 2013 KT Attendees only, thankyouverymuch.

Gulp. A little bit of wee happed.

Can you put me down for about a hundred of those or however many I’ll need to cover the surface of everything I own.

@frank

Those are new symbol packs that haven’t been released yet. They do look sweet. We’re also doing a larger symbol pack that will look bitchin on cars or chain stays etc.

When? Black cog, orange V? Please.

You’ll have to tell me how much stuff you own, and give me a 3-D model so I can map the surfaces and get back to you on a quantity.

The quality of the modeling will decrease linearly with how many brewskies I’ve consumed, obviously.

As for the new two-colored symbol packs, I’ll try to get them up this weekend. They will come in black or white, with orange cogs. In a word, BITCHIN.

@Nate Agreed, it’s bad enough realising you’ve ended up with the label on the non-drive side.

Is it common practice to pull your tubs off every now and then and re-glue them?

I have glued them up the wrong side.  This especially sucks on the rear, and is likely to happen in direct proportion to the amount of ale consumed to counteract glue fumes.  One can generally flipflop the front wheel, but it does look a bit suspect if on one wheel “AMBROSIO” is rightsideup and on the other upsidedown.

I wouldn’t pull off and reglue unless it looked like there were problems with the bond in the first place.  Of course, running Corsas, I tend to get a puncture before I have to worry about the glue aging.