OK. While on the subject of Boonen (your fault, Bretto) – I hadn’t seen this one before.

Yes, unfortunately these banners were all over the Q8 gas stations which, consequently, are all over Belgium.  I had to do a double take on my way home from work one day when I saw this.  Disturbing…

“Pro Cycling is like sausage, I love it but I don’t want to know how it is made.”

More here: http://www.phys.washington.edu/users/savage/Cycling/LookingAtTheData/AIC.html

@JFT

I believe LeMond is legit. The totality of his performances support that belief as does the science. A true one of a kind…

– You make great points. I’m familiar with this info, it’s well documented and I have used it to convince myself (and some of my Lance touting friends/acquaintances) that there was nothing to his performances other than him being “Le Man”. But the same way I had always had that bad feeling about Lance and his wins, I simply can’t shake the doubt that exists, no matter how small the chance or how little I believe it (or want to). And it’s not just him. When I was standing in line at Interbike this year waiting to get The Big Migs autograph (there’s only a few riders I would do that for, he’s one of them) I couldn’t help but wonder about him also. Such is life for cycling fans in these current times.

I just cannot believe that you would sit in a press conference and point out the problems with doping and even espouse and effective way of testing for it, the way LeMan does in this press conference to Armstrongs face if you had any skeletons in the closet…that would just be suicidal.

I have to say I believe him and what’s more the suggestions he makes about using baseline VO2 Max as a measure seems to make sense.  If it is genetic and does not alter with age then surely it is the purest test of all and sounds pretty much infallible….in addition he is proposing a solution that would actually catch himself out if it were taken up.  Balls of steel to face COTHO down in public, I bet LA was fucking fuming at this and wanted to gouge his eyes out…Chapeau Greg!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH650Br8uI

I believe LeMond is legit. The totality of his performances support that belief as does the science. A true one of a kind…

– You make great points. I’m familiar with this info, it’s well documented and I have used it to convince myself (and some of my Lance touting friends/acquaintances) that there was nothing to his performances other than him being “Le Man”. But the same way I had always had that bad feeling about Lance and his wins, I simply can’t shake the doubt that exists, no matter how small the chance or how little I believe it (or want to).  And it’s not just him. When I was standing in line at Interbike this year waiting to get The Big Migs autograph (there’s only a few riders I would do that for, he’s one of them) I couldn’t help but wonder about him also. Such is life for cycling fans in these current times.

LeMond was a sample size of 1 (n = 1). It’s difficult to quantify the sheer magnitude of the difference in performance potential between two professional endurance athletes where one measures out a relative VO2 of 90+ vs. the more commonly average (for a professional) in the mid-low 80’s. Assume all other variables being equal, like pedaling efficiency, equipment, biomechanics, diet, sleep, mental fortitude, etc… the higher relative VO2 will dominate.

Analyzing LeMond requires a complete analysis of his performance history (not just a snap shot of otherworldly performances)… only then can we see his linear performance progression for what it is. Legit. LeMond didn’t come out of nowhere… he was ripping through history like a freight train as a junior rider and on an undeniable path to immortality before real life bit him in the ass. LeMond is a true one-off in the purist sense of the phrase. Without the hunting accident, and the “no go” of 1985 it’s hard to argue against the reality of him being the first (if not only) man to have won more than five TdF races.

The record setting TT was a perfect storm in favor of LeMond… It was short (24 km), net down hill, had a strong tailwind, and LeMond rode superior equipment. Factor in the relative VO2 of 90+ (which allows for faster recovery following repeated bouts of intense exercise) and it stands to reason that the man with that kind of physiology would eventually leave his mark on history.

Cheating w/PED’s, advances in technology, and the ultra-rare race distance have allowed average professionals to creep closer, but at the end of the day, the average pro with the average pro relative VO2 can’t bridge a gap of the magnitude difference that exists between nearly 10 ml-kg… LeMond is the only rider to have those physiological numbers officially, and it makes perfect sense that he’s the only rider with a performance like the record setting TT so often used to make the argument that he must have doped.

I believe LeMond is legit. The totality of his performances support that belief as does the science. A true one of a kind…

I agree with you guys, and I hate that I feel compelled to have these thoughts, but it’s so hard (impossible?) not to. Especially when I look at that photo of the Professor crushing that Pave, he seems unbeatable steroids or not.

For me I can honestly say that I don’t know of one of my cycling heroes that I would be willing to bet my house that they were 100% clean…and that’s a bit sad. (Although if I had to choose one, Hampsten would probably be the guy)

Still love the sport, always will. I’ll be watching every cyclocross world cup this winter to hold me over until things get rolling with next years Tour Down Under. Holding out hope that all of this mess can lead to a new day of clean racing… Holding out hope, but not holding my breath.

That TT was only 25km, kinda short for a non-prologue.  How many similar length ones have there been?  Lemond was probably pretty motivated for that one as well.

So maybe the recent big news events in our beloved sport may have made me overly cynical, but having been a fan of Fignon for over 20 years now, and knowing what a beast he was in multiple disciplines on a road bike, and that he was doping during the peak of his career, I can’t help but ask – How does Greg Lemond come back from getting shot and almost dying, having an appendectomy and tendonitis during his rehab and beat the professor clean? And how does he set a record during that tour for average speed in a time trial that has managed to stand through the now proven doping tinged years of Lance and his ilk?

Is this not a fair question?

Yeah, completely fair question and one that has always wiggled around in the back of my head.  I am  a true and dedicated die-hard LeMan fan since 1986 and have loved the guy ever since.  I can only justify it by the fact that he has the highest ever recorded VO2max in a cyclist (I think two nordic skiiers have recorded higher–Bjorn Daehlie and another guy) and the fact that no one was using EPO/HGH then (at least according to Fignon and everyone else that I have read).  There were people using steroids and amphetamines but I am pretty sure that he never used amphetamines.  Perhaps he used steroids, who knows?  His quads were massive at that tour.  But, for now, I give him the benefit of the doubt, and really believe that he didn’t. 

Is this not a fair question?

@frank

@Georges

Since you’re bringing the subject of “The Professor”, I was really surprised to read in his biography (Nous etions jeunes et insouciants – We were young and carefree) the following (loosely translated):

“Contrairement a la plupart des autres géants de la route, on ne m’a jamais affuble d’un surnom. Du début a la fin, qu’on m’ait aime ou non, qu’on ait été impressionné par mes exploits ou non, qu’on ait vu ou refuse de voir en moi un champion d’exception, je suis reste Laurent Fignon. Rien que Laurent Fignon. Moi et rien d’autre en somme.”

“Unlike most of the other giants of the road, I never dons a nickname. From start to finish, whether I was liked or not, whether one has been impressed by my deeds or not, whether one has seen or refused to see me as a champion of exception, I was still Laurent Fignon. Just Laurent Fignon. Me and nothing else really.”

Anyone else noticed that? Did the Professor nickname stick later on or was he just not aware of it?

Interesting; I don’t recall that passage from the book. I’ve always heard the nickname, Professor, but who knows if it came along later, or maybe only in the English-speaking public? He didn’t speak much English, so he could have missed it?

Maybe it’s in the French edition and not the English translation. I think I read an interview with the translator who said he did some editing as well, dropping some passages for various reasons.

Yeah, he did not like the nickname because he didn’t think it fit as he didn’t finish very much university. The English translation is one of the best French-English I have ever read (and I was a Canadian Army officer – a lot). I felt the beauty of French in the english. Maybe that’s just me.

+1 to that!  I would love one of those!

And will wear it (occasionally).

Jacques Anquetil 175mm
Lance Armstrong — (negligible)
Magnus Backstedt 177.5mm
Chris Boardman 170mm
Santiago Botero 172.5mm
Angel Casero 175mm
Mario Cipollini 172.5mm
Fausto Coppi 171mm
Malcolm Elliott 172.5mm
Tyler Hamilton 172.5mm
Bernard Hinault 172.5mm
Miguel Indurian 180mm (190mm for second Hour record!)
Laurent Jalabert 172.5mm
Greg Lemond 175mm
Brad McGee 175mm
Robbie McEwen 175mm
Eddy Merckx 175mm
David Millar 175mm (180mm in TT)
Francesco Moser 175mm
Marty Northstein 167.5mm in Keirin (170mm in kilo)
Graham Obree 175mm
Marco Pantani 170mm (180mm in mountains)
David Rebellin 172.5mm
Roger Riviere 175mm
Jean Robic 170mm
Tony Rominger 172.5mm (175mm for Hour record)
Oscar Sevilla 175mm
Jan Ullrich 177.5mm
Rik Verbrugghe 175mm
Erik Zabel 172.5mm
Alex Zulle 175mm (180mm in mountains)

And love this.

@Georges

Since you’re bringing the subject of “The Professor”, I was really surprised to read in his biography (Nous etions jeunes et insouciants – We were young and carefree) the following (loosely translated):

“Contrairement a la plupart des autres géants de la route, on ne m’a jamais affuble d’un surnom. Du début a la fin, qu’on m’ait aime ou non, qu’on ait été impressionné par mes exploits ou non, qu’on ait vu ou refuse de voir en moi un champion d’exception, je suis reste Laurent Fignon. Rien que Laurent Fignon. Moi et rien d’autre en somme.”

“Unlike most of the other giants of the road, I never dons a nickname. From start to finish, whether I was liked or not, whether one has been impressed by my deeds or not, whether one has seen or refused to see me as a champion of exception, I was still Laurent Fignon. Just Laurent Fignon. Me and nothing else really.”

Anyone else noticed that? Did the Professor nickname stick later on or was he just not aware of it?

Interesting; I don’t recall that passage from the book. I’ve always heard the nickname, Professor, but who knows if it came along later, or maybe only in the English-speaking public? He didn’t speak much English, so he could have missed it?

Maybe it’s in the French edition and not the English translation.  I think I read an interview with the translator who said he did some editing as well, dropping some passages for various reasons.

I will have to rewatch my video of the ’89 tdf b/c I seem to remember Auntie Phil calling him that during the video somewhere.  I also seem to remember reading somewhere that  Fignon was not fond of the moniker so maybe that is why he does not claim it in his bio?

Since you’re bringing the subject of “The Professor”, I was really surprised to read in his biography (Nous etions jeunes et insouciants – We were young and carefree) the following (loosely translated):

“Contrairement a la plupart des autres géants de la route, on ne m’a jamais affuble d’un surnom. Du début a la fin, qu’on m’ait aime ou non, qu’on ait été impressionné par mes exploits ou non, qu’on ait vu ou refuse de voir en moi un champion d’exception, je suis reste Laurent Fignon. Rien que Laurent Fignon. Moi et rien d’autre en somme.”

“Unlike most of the other giants of the road, I never dons a nickname. From start to finish, whether I was liked or not, whether one has been impressed by my deeds or not, whether one has seen or refused to see me as a champion of exception, I was still Laurent Fignon. Just Laurent Fignon. Me and nothing else really.”

Anyone else noticed that? Did the Professor nickname stick later on or was he just not aware of it?

Interesting; I don’t recall that passage from the book. I’ve always heard the nickname, Professor, but who knows if it came along later, or maybe only in the English-speaking public? He didn’t speak much English, so he could have missed it?

Boone developed them, but by the time LeMan was on ’em he was rollin’ some pretty well defined Scotts. The 4th stage ITT had apparently had some prototypes, but by the final stage, he had some production or near-production bars. You can see the difference in the arm rests between the two photos.

Also, didnt’ mean to imply LeMond invented them, just that he is credited with igniting the revolution…

Damn, I love that crankset.

Yes, a few days before didn’t he ride something like a gazillion k’s with virtually zero food, putting his body into complete depletion/exhaustiion, forcing it to overcompensate in recovery allowing him to have a surplus of energy (something like that)? Did the same the following year as well I believe. Does anyone train like that nowadays? Doubt it.

Rule #91, Bitches.

I hear that Rule 91 gives you prostate cancer.  You might want to watch out Frank, you might get sued for that.

I was about to say that much like Professeur Pave there might not be a bad photo of Boonen. And then I see him in a towel. Jeez.

I already put this up somewhere here, but that photo needs some counterweight. I dig this:

@unversio You might be on the wrong thread, matey.

@Leroy

@unversio

1989 Tour de France Final Time Trial

It always amazes me just how non-aero riders were before LeMond…

Whats funny is how history is written. Figgles was all over the aero bars before the ’89 Tour but the UCI said he couldn’t ride them. Then 7-Eleven rocked them Stateside for a bit. LeMond had Scott bend out a set for the Tour and he was allowed to ride and credited with the aero revolution. Funny how that works.

Correction: It was Boone Lennon, the ’84-’86 US Ski Team coach that developed them. The prototype was bent out of a ski pole.

My roommates in college were coached by him when they were on the JO team in Bozeman MT. I knew about those bars before they were ‘vogue’, and before I raced bikes. Good stuff.

Maybe he’s talking about nicknames in the peleton?

“Contrairement a la plupart des autres géants de la route, on ne m’a jamais affuble d’un surnom. Du début a la fin, qu’on m’ait aime ou non, qu’on ait été impressionné par mes exploits ou non, qu’on ait vu ou refuse de voir en moi un champion d’exception, je suis reste Laurent Fignon. Rien que Laurent Fignon. Moi et rien d’autre en somme.”

“Unlike most of the other giants of the road, I never dons a nickname. From start to finish, whether I was liked or not, whether one has been impressed by my deeds or not, whether one has seen or refused to see me as a champion of exception, I was still Laurent Fignon. Just Laurent Fignon. Me and nothing else really.”

Anyone else noticed that? Did the Professor nickname stick later on or was he just not aware of it?

+1

@unversio

@Gianni

@unversio

Exactly, the white hoods on Campagnolo levers. I bought a pair of those exact levers from a friend who must have been upgrading to first generation ergo. They were beautiful.

I want to say 8-speed as well. I built up a Pinarello in 91 with what I refer to as 8-speed Athena/Chorus. Campagnolo was good about upgrading their gruppos anytime the component design shifted forward.

That little hunnie I showed up top is rollin’ Record 10spd with downtube shifters. Friction shifters don’ t give a shit!

@G’rilla

+1 as well. How many is that now?

@il ciclista medio

@Nate

On the well-rounded (no pun intended) point I really liked the story of how Fignon decided he had a shot at Milan Sanremo, trained up for it, and went out and won a race no one seemed to think suited him. Then did it again the next year even though everyone now knew he could.

Yes, a few days before didn’t he ride something like a gazillion k’s with virtually zero food, putting his body into complete depletion/exhaustiion, forcing it to overcompensate in recovery allowing him to have a surplus of energy (something like that)? Did the same the following year as well I believe. Does anyone train like that nowadays? Doubt it.

Rule 91, Bitches.

Indeed.

@Nate

On the well-rounded (no pun intended) point I really liked the story of how Fignon decided he had a shot at Milan Sanremo, trained up for it, and went out and won a race no one seemed to think suited him. Then did it again the next year even though everyone now knew he could.

Yes, a few days before didn’t he ride something like a gazillion k’s with virtually zero food, putting his body into complete depletion/exhaustiion, forcing it to overcompensate in recovery allowing him to have a surplus of energy (something like that)? Did the same the following year as well I believe. Does anyone train like that nowadays? Doubt it.

@unversio

Exactly, the white hoods on Campagnolo levers. I bought a pair of those exact levers from a friend who must have been upgrading to first generation ergo. They were beautiful.

I want to say 8-speed as well. I built up a Pinarello in 91 with what I refer to as 8-speed Athena/Chorus. Campagnolo was good about upgrading their gruppos anytime the component design shifted forward.

@frank

@marko

Nice one. Such an awesome pic. I wonder which secteur that is? That’s what I always think now when I see these pics and the secteur isn’t obvious (like the Trench or Carre Four). And I’m glad you can at least appreciate someone riding the crown vicariously.

A HIT!!! A PALPABLE HIT!

I debated for hours whether to use the Fignon pic or this one… I could see that coming a mile off.

You mean 1.609 km. Rule 24

Exactly, the white hoods on Campagnolo levers. I bought a pair of those exact levers from a friend who must have been upgrading to first generation ergo. They were beautiful.

@unversio You might be on the wrong thread, matey.

Sounds like you are threatening this from a dark alley. “I don’t want any trouble mister…”

It is bordering on the perfect looking bike. Finally in the clipless era but pre-ergo shifitng. When brake cables were first run under the bar tape. It’s mean and clean.

@unversio You might be on the wrong thread, matey.

@Leroy

@unversio

1989 Tour de France Final Time Trial

It always amazes me just how non-aero riders were before LeMond…

Whats funny is how history is written. Figgles was all over the aero bars before the ’89 Tour but the UCI said he couldn’t ride them. Then 7-Eleven rocked them Stateside for a bit. LeMond had Scott bend out a set for the Tour and he was allowed to ride and credited with the aero revolution. Funny how that works.

Not only that, but didn’t multiple riders from other teams ride aero bars for the first ITT at the ’89 tdf?

I loved that book. I bought it as reading material for the plane trip to Europe for a vacation with the wife. She ended up being a little miffed because I didn’t stop reading when we got off the plane, largely ignored her and wound up finishing it in 3 sittings.

@Beers

@unversio

Even his chain slap carries a huge (fuck off) amount of energy!

Yeah, I love looking at photos and checking the sag in the chain. This one, because the Professor is flying over 5 or 6 cobbles at a time, for they are ducking down in order to not sustain damage from the hurt his tubs are dishing out. Secondly, his derailleur cannot pick up the slack fast enough from Sur La Plaque since a design for one-man power is unable to function correctly under the power of V (5) men…

There’s a great shot of Boonen cornering in Roubaix this year in the little ring. It brings together something I’ve wondered about for ages – why do all the Roubaix guys use such a monster small ring (46T or bigger sometimes). The question is, there are no climbs that would ever justify any small ring at all, so why bother with it at all?

My theory is that there is so much chain slap going on that you can’t keep your chain on the either ring if you tried – I had my chain drop down several times for no reason at all – its whipping around so much it just will drop from time to time. When you have 46 or 48, the drop doesn’t matter so much and you can just drop a few cogs in the back and go on your merry way. with the 39, it was so bad you had to either stop because you thought you’d dropped your chain completely, or spend time trying to rattle you chain back onto the big ring while riding a jackhammer.

I think what you are saying is (1) less likely to drop the chain; (2) better than a single ring because you might be able to get it back on without stopping and (3) a pro doesn’t need 39t on that course.  That’s my understanding, for whatever it’s worth — less than yours, I haven’t ridden the fucking things.

But without this pivotal experience, who knows, maybe the Millarcopter would never have been invented.

@unversio

Even his chain slap carries a huge (fuck off) amount of energy!

Yeah, I love looking at photos and checking the sag in the chain. This one, because the Professor is flying over 5 or 6 cobbles at a time, for they are ducking down in order to not sustain damage from the hurt his tubs are dishing out. Secondly, his derailleur cannot pick up the slack fast enough from Sur La Plaque since a design for one-man power is unable to function correctly under the power of V (5) men…

There’s a great shot of Boonen cornering in Roubaix this year in the little ring. It brings together something I’ve wondered about for ages – why do all the Roubaix guys use such a monster small ring (46T or bigger sometimes). The question is, there are no climbs that would ever justify any small ring at all, so why bother with it at all?

My theory is that there is so much chain slap going on that you can’t keep your chain on either ring if you tried – I had my chain drop down several times for no reason at all – its whipping around so much it just will drop from time to time. When you have 46 or 48, the drop doesn’t matter so much and you can just drop a few cogs in the back and go on your merry way. with the 39, it was so bad you had to either stop because you thought you’d dropped your chain completely, or spend time trying to rattle you chain back onto the big ring while riding a jackhammer.

Uh-huh. Right.

@Nate

@MrLowell

In retrospect it’s hard to believe I rooted for LeMond over Fignon (not to take anything away from LeMond, either). On the off cance you haven’t read it yet, pick up a copy of We Were Young and Carefree.

These cobble shots are great, because in his book he talks about riding the stones in his first Tour. He rode them fine, but gripped his bars like every other first-timer does and destroyed his hands. Fantastic book.

On the well-rounded (no pun intended) point I really liked the story of how Fignon decided he had a shot at Milan Sanremo, trained up for it, and went out and won a race no one seemed to think suited him.  Then did it again the next year even though everyone now knew he could.

@Leroy

@unversio

1989 Tour de France Final Time Trial

It always amazes me just how non-aero riders were before LeMond…

Whats funny is how history is written. Figgles was all over the aero bars before the ’89 Tour but the UCI said he couldn’t ride them. Then 7-Eleven rocked them Stateside for a bit. LeMond had Scott bend out a set for the Tour and he was allowed to ride and credited with the aero revolution. Funny how that works.

@MrLowell

In retrospect it’s hard to believe I rooted for LeMond over Fignon (not to take anything away from LeMond, either). On the off cance you haven’t read it yet, pick up a copy of We Were Young and Carefree.

These cobble shots are great, because in his book he talks about riding the stones in his first Tour. He rode them fine, but gripped his bars like every other first-timer does and destroyed his hands. Fantastic book.

@marko

Nice one. Such an awesome pic. I wonder which secteur that is? That’s what I always think now when I see these pics and the secteur isn’t obvious (like the Trench or Carre Four). And I’m glad you can at least appreciate someone riding the crown vicariously.

A HIT!!! A PALPABLE HIT!

I debated for hours whether to use the Fignon pic or this one… I could see that coming a mile off.

LeMond had a raw power about him, but I agree with you – I always preferred Figgles for his Magnificent Stroke. Impossible to find a bad picture of him.

[dmalbum: path=”/velominati.com/wp-content/uploads/readers/frank/2012.10.24.21.31.03/”/]

I loved his 83/84 attitude. If you read his autobiography, those were his golden years – he was just so strong. He spent the rest of his career trying to rediscover that form. ’89 was the year he did it again.

The Professeur was the badass of Pave’, despite his druthers, and his statements that he hated these conditions and didn’t really do well in them, it seems it may have almost been a reverse-psychology tact that he employed because he was one killer PRO in spring.
He was definitely ahead of his time

Riders were still well-rounded back in those days. I think specialization hasn’t done much for us over the years, to be honest. Just more doping, more focus, less Awesomeness and Versatility.

Awesome has three V’s in it (an A is just an upside down V), and Versatility starts with one. Thats why those words rule so hard.

Our very first Anatomy of a Photo was on Figgles doing this same thing: http://www.velominati.com/racing/anatomy-of-a-photo-1990-paris-roubaix/

Funny. That AoP got 10 posts back in 2010.

Nice one. Such an awesome pic. I wonder which secteur that is? That’s what I always think now when I see these pics and the secteur isn’t obvious (like the Trench or Carre Four). And I’m glad you can at least appreciate someone riding the crown vicariously.

A HIT!!! A PALPABLE HIT!

But c’mon. The Castrorama kit was awesome! I’m going to put on my hogwashers when I get home tonight, just for fun.

Even his chain slap carries a huge (fuck off) amount of energy!

Yeah, I love looking at photos and checking the sag in the chain. This one, because the Professor is flying over 5 or 6 cobbles at a time, for they are ducking down in order to not sustain damage from the hurt his tubs are dishing out. Secondly, his derailleur cannot pick up the slack fast enough from Sur La Plaque since a design for one-man power is unable to function correctly under the power of V (5) men…

1989 Tour de France Final Time Trial

It always amazes me just how non-aero riders were before LeMond…

In retrospect it’s hard to believe I rooted for LeMond over Fignon (not to take anything away from LeMond, either). On the off cance you haven’t read it yet, pick up a copy of We Were Young and Carefree.

Even the cobbles here in the 89 Paris-Roubaix are being blown dry by the force of The Professor’s big ring whirlpool, floating millimeters above the surface and forcing the rider he’s just passed into a muddy pit of broken stones while he continues his assault down the middle, on the crown.

Brilliant! … absolutely captures the moment. Huge respect for Fignon and his hardman style of racing.

because he was one killer PRO in spring.

and Summer – still the last rider to win both a Monument and a Grand Tour in the same year from what I recall

@MrLowell

I love the quote he gave to whomever it was that said to him ‘You’re the guy who lost the Tour by 8 seconds’ – He replied, ‘No, I’m the guy who won the Tour twice’

Plus, I was kind of nerdy growing up, hell, I still am, and Fignon LOOKS like one of my people, but he would have left any of the athletes I grew up with in the ditch crying for mother. He’s awesome. One of my all time favorites.

I tried to find and buy a Belgian hairnet when in France in June and could not find one anywhere!  Must be a place on the web but I wanted to hold onto one and try it on.  Still want to get one.