@oldschooly – love the painted mudgaurds. The whole bike is proper.
@frank – parts are beginning to arrive for n+1 at project hq. I’ve been pillaging for sale forums of the internet like a rabid, magpie fed, Ghengis Khan. Middleburn cranks, phil bb, Pace carbon forks and a glitterati of titanium skewers..not that I need all these, of course, but once you get locked into a serious build there’s a tendency to push it as far as you can…

Report back, please! Will we see this beauty on Keepers Tour?

@frank – parts are beginning to arrive for n+1 at project hq. I’ve been pillaging for sale forums of the internet like a rabid, magpie fed, Ghengis Khan. Middleburn cranks, phil bb, Pace carbon forks and a glitterati of titanium skewers..not that I need all these, of course, but once you get locked into a serious build there’s a tendency to push it as far as you can…

I recently got this thing on the road. Handbuilt by me. Double oversize slant 6 (actually more like slant 5 due to steeper HT and ST angle). A real Portland special with stainless bottom bracket and head tube for corrosion resistance and painted to match VO fenders (and frame pump). Murdered out!

That’s is gorgeous! Wish I would have seen it at the Cogal!

@Joe

@chris….that has capsized my mind. Somewhere, there must exist a magical co-efficient where grip, weight distribution and speed allign to give purpose to such a device…but on a bicycle? really? That said, it looks a lot like a 6pot version of the calipers yamaha used to fit to the R1 – good brakes.
Next up….RADIAL calipers, mark my words.
In the meantime, I’m off to borrow Frank’s toolkit and go for a smoke.

Mountain bikes – maybe. Cross bikes, possibly. Road bikes? Fuck off. What you say is absolutely exactly what I’ve been thinking about these things. Seems like such craziness. And then you get the fun job of trying to get the fucking disk to stop rubbing. Good luck. There’s like a 1mm tolerance.

I recently got this thing on the road. Handbuilt by me. Double oversize slant 6 (actually more like slant 5 due to steeper HT and ST angle). A real Portland special with stainless bottom bracket and head tube for corrosion resistance and painted to match VO fenders (and frame pump). Murdered out!

Next up….RADIAL calipers, mark my words.

In the meantime, I’m off to borrow Frank’s toolkit and go for a smoke.

Speaking of which, they have 4 pot, opposing caliper disc brakes on BICYCLES now?

Six…

MMMm. New projects are magnificent. I’m into 1st N+1 of married life (barely caused a ripple, curiously) and am having similar parts selection dilemmas. Moreso, as it’s an MTB and the last time I had an MTB, suspension forks were the new hot shit, and DH was still ridden on bicycles rather than MX Bikes with the engines removed. Speaking of which, they have 4 pot, opposing caliper disc brakes on BICYCLES now? My first race motorbike had 1 sliding, 2 pot and that did 130mph! Think I’ll stick to the Vs.

It’s confusing, but wonderful.

Buddies run Ritchey, and I have faith in that as well, as every single Ritchey item i have ever had (minus some GD V3 pedals) were great, the pedals weren’t worth a sheeeeit. Anyway, Ritchey is pretty much great. Consider wound-up as well and Eastons. Really, they are all good IMHO. I personally, for this application like aluminum steerer tubes…ala Hincapie

crank length does matter…everything in cycling matters, less we all ride hipster stylin
as tall as you are, you may even go 180, since my feeling is cross riding and all is like mtn biking to some degree, and the ‘souplesse’ of the spin is not as critical, also due to the temps and all, your cadence will be a bit slower, so longer cranks do help…leverage. I run longer on my rigid SS mtn bike and its real man.

and ditto to Otoman, he nails it on what he said, so good points on brakes and all. V brakes are by far stronger, but if your gonna run them with STi, I understand canti’s are easier unless you run a ‘thing-a-ma-jig’. So i run canti’s, since i am new and will go to Vbrakes after the mandatory crashing and cursing and regret

and pedals: I run the simple double sided SPD’s, xtr’s. Pick’m up cheap, and easy.

@cyclops: I have done my fair share of sweatin copper, so that’s a go! I am all over it, thanks for the inspiration, truly good stuff.

Here’s my low bucks Ibis Hakkalugi rebuild I did for ‘cross this season. I totally suck, but a newer bike won’t make me any faster…
http://yoeddy.blogspot.com/2011/09/project-hakkalugi-rolls-again.html

Frank – check out the Seattle ‘cross scene next fall. Great stuff.

Realistically, though, with the EV2 moving to around-town bike and three road bikes, I’m not sure I’d ever find the need to ride the CX bike on slicks. I’d even consider doing the various gravellers I’m thinking of doing on the R3 with the 25mm FMBs. But never say never, and if I need slicks on there, I’ll just have to deal.

It’s very nice to be able to throw on some road wheels and take my cross bike out on rainy days or when I just feel like riding it, but don’t want knobbies.

Hopefully you can make it compatible, but if not maybe a budget road wheelset to have on hand if you want to swap out your cross wheels.

How crazy am I to go with my usual 177.5mm cranks?

Cervelo says that crank length doesn’t affect power. Go with whatever crank length you find comfortable.

@Cyclops
Beautiful, just beautiful. How long is the line to get one in a 54?

I’ve refrained from asking that question merely on the grounds of me not having the means to build the bike up once getting the frame… although building a bike from components is one of the things I’d like to eventually do.

Serviceable? Warrantable, more like it. They will fall apart. They have improved the new ones a bit, but they will fall apart. I went on a MTB road trip with a (now former) CB employee a few years back, and he carried enough spares to rebuild every bit on his bike. I remember him having to replace a freehub trailside. Just happened to have one in his pack.
Looks Good. Works sometimes. Falls apart. Pick one.

Beautiful. Sounds like your mate might have to try maintaining his bike in his workshop a bit before leaving for the ride. I’ve pulled/replaced the bearings on the pedals once and they were easy and the service kit was cheap. What’s not to like?

Since I have the pedals already, I’ll stick with them for now, but I do loves me some Time pedals, so the ATACs is not a bad route in any case.

@frank
FNG here. I normally lurk and don’t post, but this frame and @Cyclop’s generosity are just so cool, I had to join in. As for your build, I’m running the Campa Centuar carbon CX group on my 6 month old cross bike (Steve’s Carbon Team). Went with that because it’s compatible with the 10 year old Chorus 10S group on bike #2 so I can also run my Proton road wheels from that on my cross bike. The Centuar has been super relaible and easy to maintain. Only bit I’m questionable on are the Campa cantis. Pain to adjust, but it’s probably just that my wrenching sucks. Haven’t riden or wrenched any others like the Avids or TRPs. As for wheels, I’d say build your on since you’ve done it once already. I’m on Fulcrum 5 CX FWIW. Definitely upgrading to tubs for next crossseason. Look forward to updates on your build. Cheers!

OK Frank, it’s Campa CX gruppo, some tubs you build, an orange and white Velominati unitard and you, my friend, will be a monster in the Fall CX races.

Cyclops, you are a stud. Being a compulsive head case pays off, that is an unbelievable job in many ways. And to give it to Franky-boy, I’d name my first born Cyclops if that ship hadn’t luckily sailed.

Looks Good. Works sometimes. Falls apart. Pick one.

Frank, you now need to figure out cross shoes…with all the mud & muck, unless you are a sponsored dude with someone to clean your stuff, White or Yellow Princesses are very bold (crazy) for cross. I still can’t believe Stybar races in a white skinsuit with white shoes & socks. He must have to just throw all of it away after every race.

@frank
Frank, you have a stalker. Keep an eye on your rabbits.

Some night, I’ll wake up with @Cyclops standing at the bedside holding a dagger and chanting. I will think something along the lines of, “Oh shit.” It will be my last thought.

@Cyclops

@RedRanger
I think @Frank wants to keep the video under wraps so people don’t see what a messy housekeeper he is.

Or see me giggle like a six-year-old girl.

@Ron
Is this the sort of thing you’re looking for with the continuous inner liner?

Hey Chris! Thanks for the reply. Hmm, not sure. I can’t really tell. Is that blue piece in the set liner which goes inside the housing? I need really thin liner, like 1mm. The “up to 1.8mm” stuff from Nokon was too large.

I did find out from the shop that the piece I got was left over from frames they have with internal routing. Maybe the Specialized Cruxs? They don’t have it separately, just what comes already inside the frame.

They steered me towards the Jagwire L3 liner, but those seem to be 5mm. Too big again.

Great job on the frame!

I like my eggbeaters. So enlighten me.

Was running the dog on some grass on my back-up cross/do it all bike when a stick promptly jammed right into my RD and before I could get my feet off the pedals, snapped it right off. Yeah! At least the 105 5700 RDs aren’t too expensive from some Euro dealers.

On another note & since we’re discussing technical stuff, I’m about to go insane trying to find 1mm housing liner to recable a bike with internal routing. I have a leftover section a shop gave me, but it’s not long enough. Not sure if it was from a Nokon cable kit or Jagwire. I was after 1mm liner but couldn’t find it, so ordered 1.8mm Jagwire stuff. Too wide. At this point I’ll even buy an entire cable kit just for the liner (I want to run this liner inside the built-in liner to be safe and not drop the liner inside the frame.) I don’t even care if it’s bike-specific.

Anyone have an idea on where I can find more of what I have? Or around 5′ of 1mm housing liner?

Which begs the next question: which cantis do I go for?

I just took took the cantis off my cross bike and installed the TRP CX-9 mini-V brakes. Of course you need V brakes! The name alone makes them mandatory for you…. They are a HUGE and DRAMATIC upgrade in braking performance: nice modulation, much better power when needed, don’t squeal (maybe someone else can get ride of squeal from cantis, I never could despite fairly obsessive tinkering), and no fork chatter/shudder. The bow effect creating the front chatter drove me friggin’ nuts (as you brake, the fork flexes backwards, incrementally pulling the cable more taught b/c the distance from brake to cable hanger increases; the pads then bite more, then your momentum carries you through and the pads release and the process is repeated — 5-10x per second) You can go faster b/c you can brake later into a corner. The one downside that I can see is that the pads are positioned a bit closer to the rims than cantis, so mud caking could be an issue, although I’ve never had it be a problem. My LBS did install a Problem Solver so that I would have the nice modulation and brake feel with my Rival shifters. They will work without, but will be fairly spongy with poor modulation. VN had a joke that cantis didn’t so much stop you as squeal to warn the guy in front of you that they were about to be rammed.

My 2 cents re Build:

If you plan to ride that bike properly then Tubs are a must. Running clinchers at pressure low enough to get the traction you need will result in pinch flats. Tubeless is no go, burping whilst railing corners is bad news. Build another wheelset of two if you need to. Similar to the nemisis build but cheaper would be the go. If you intend to race you’ll want/need them.

If it is muddy where you live then I’d go cantis, if not and like to be able to stop then look into the Mini V option from TRP. I’ve run an Arione on MTB and Cross without to many issues with it catching my shorts. If you’re worried about this than go a MTB version such as the Tundra.

Nothing really to add regarding Forks. Whatever tickles your fancy and is within budget. Enve do a cross Fork that would be pretty Bling. As Cyclops said, a carbon fork would look good with the carbon seat stays. Might want something with a 3k weave like the stays though.

Cheers

@brett
Belt drive?

Raleigh and gates are gettin aggressive w/ single speed cross tekmology, super cool stuff. The gates stuff was also being used in tandems.

wrt egg beaters- use em myself, mud clearance awesome. can’t tell if the absence of problems so far is just luck and lack of use- have definitely had teammates have pedals disintegrate on warm up laps; name a pedal system that hasn’t at some point worn out or failed… xtr pedals have been popular and used by some pretty seasoned people i respect; just can’t bear to add yet another pedal system to my collection…

that ritchey drop-in (unless used w/ v-brakes) is a set-up for annoying chatter w/ cantis as far as I can tell from the pic- it looks like it goes at the top of head tube (far away on that size frame). I have a colleague on a carbon ridley similarly proportioned head tube (another who obsesses on detail- both aesthetic and functional) w/ the long distance- drives him bat shit. Just sayin.

@Cyclops – Amazing job on the frame. I own a copy of Lugged bicycle frame const. myself but have yet to dive in. Want to build a singlespeed cross bike to go along with the geared setup, you’ve definitely re-stoked the fire!

@Scaler, @Redranger, @Brett – re: Crank Brothers – I use crank brothers egg beaters on both my mountain and cross bikes and have had nothing but good results. Not to mention that their role as the main title sponsor of the USGP of Cyclocross from ’05 to ’08 helped that series raise both the level of awareness and competition in the sport here in the states. Not saying they’re the best brand in the world, but there are definitely some things to like.

@redranger

@brett

Do NOT use any Crank Bros stuff. There should be a Rule about that

I was actually thinking the same thing.

Funny you should mention that. I just heard that they are sponsoring a brand new team here in Oregon. I don’t know shit about the product. What’s the beef? Or, while waiting for a response, I’ll go look for myself.

K. I’m picking up what you’re laying down. Not cheap or anything. Just: Meh.

@brett

Do NOT use any Crank Bros stuff. There should be a Rule about that

I was actually thinking the same thing.

Funny you should mention that. I just heard that they are sponsoring a brand new team here in Oregon. I don’t know shit about the product. What’s the beef? Or, while waiting for a response, I’ll go look for myself.

Do NOT use any Crank Bros stuff. There should be a Rule about that

I was actually thinking the same thing.

Brakes TRP. Eggbeater or ctr pedals. And you can get a fork mounted cable hanger for chatter if you don’t go V brakes. You’ll want something other than a steer tube cable hanger though for that heartiness.

Do NOT use any Crank Bros stuff. There should be a Rule about that.

Cable hanger problem solved:

Only bit I’m questionable on are the Campa cantis. Pain to adjust, but it’s probably just that my wrenching sucks. Haven’t riden or wrenched any others like the Avids or TRPs. As for wheels, I’d say build your on since you’ve done it once already. I’m on Fulcrum 5 CX FWIW. Definitely upgrading to tubs for next crossseason. Look forward to updates on your build. Cheers!

I’ve been looking at these brakes for a Campa build. Anyone else have any thoughts on if these are better or worse than any other canti brakes? Or have good euro alternatives?

@brett
What do you think of Ritchey cranks? (for my cross bike). I saw there was a recall of some models and they don’t make them anymore, but there are some for USD$140 on ebay. They look cool and would match my Ritchey bars and stem.

I was going to suggest them, but thought they were no longer around. I like em, and hadn’t heard of a recall.

@frank

Brakes, TRP. Pedals, Time.

@brett
Belt drive?

Cyclops would have to take the torch to the frame again…

Ok, for the kit; Get your Frischy on… Ritchey fork, bars, stem, post and carbon tubs. Maybe even their saddle.

Gruppo, well even though there are nice cable stops on the TT, maybe consider Di2 for the ease of shifting in the goop. Or you could man up and go singlespeed. That way you don’t have to use Shimano or Sram.

I agree that 9 speed Dura Ace is perfect for cx, I’ve been using mine the past 2 plus seasons and it’s been perfect.

As for brakes, I like the shorty ultimates and the TRP mini V brakes. Plus, the whole mini V has to have some symbolic meaning here, no?

Wheels=dealers choice. They need to be strong. Deep carbon wheels look cool, and that’s half the battle.

And of course, @cyclops that frame is Gor-gee-ous!

@all
Ok, yeah, yeah, beautiful frame, yeah yeah. Whatever. Down to business. How am I building this up? I need opinions on kit so I have something to ignore when I get around to making decisions.
SO. Do I build wheels? I’ve also been wanting to go with Firecrest wheels for the #1 (maybe tubbies) and then could move the 404″²s to either Bike #3 or the CX bike – if I move the 404″²s to the CX bike, that frees up the Ksyriums on there now for Nederaap.
How does wheel strength figure for CX? Or, I build, since I assume I’m a badass wheel builder now. Seems kinda fitting, too, with a handbuilt frame to run handbuilt wheels. On the other hand, deep-section wheels seems to be very sensible for CX as it helps keep the shit off the cantis.
Which begs the next question: which cantis do I go for?

SRAM or Shimano. Easton carbon fork. Wheels? Tubs. Carbon. I don’t think it makes a shit ton of difference which brand anymore. Mavic, Zipp, Reynolds. All probably come from the same factory in China anyway (I’m sure I’ll get flack for that). You’re a big guy, so spoke up a bit. ‘Cross courses trash your gear (just ask @gaswepass).

@frank – I can’t wait to see pix of the fully-built rig. =)

@RedRanger
I think @Frank wants to keep the video under wraps so people don’t see what a messy housekeeper he is.

totally understandable. I’m just messing.

Since no one else has pointed it out yet, as a student of cross stuff, cyclops did you a huge style point- the “hand job” for the rear brake cable. That will eliminate brake chatter in the rear, and opens you to choose freely amongst the many cross brake options.(various canti styles or v-brake)

For the front, especially given the crazy head tube length, you have 2 choices to avoid chatter- suspending device at bottom of head tube (look at a stevens frame for a good style/description), or v-brake. If a suspending device isnt attachable, you will want a v-brake (much more powerful stopping, less mud clearance, no chatter). Some people don’t care, some tear their hair out over chatter).

personally I would go either v-brake or ultegra canti’s. thats just me tho.

Congrats!

I’m a 56cm. Road please. V-orange. No carbon stays. Cheers.

Seriously mate, what a fantastic gesture, and a great job of building for your first time. It looks awesome!

@frank

Frank, you have a stalker. Keep an eye on your rabbits.

@redranger
If we showed it to you we’d have to kill you.

I’ll take my chances! I’m half Sicilian, I has connections.

If we showed it to you we’d have to kill you.

@fasthair
…And with a carbon fork and the carbon stays it looks badass!

And I completely agree! I would think your loving wife must be beyond proud of you and what you have done and accomplished here.

I just read your complete blog and seen you used software for helping with tub angle measuring. There is a tool that race car roll cage builder use to help set miter angles on tubing for cutting. It’s called tube contour gauges. Not sure it will help or work for you but thought I would pass it along.

fasthair

fasthair

At least I’m 6 races ahead of him. And two more in the next two months. Yeah.

My plan is to learn the wheelie and the half meter bunny hop before he starts racing in September.

From my viewpoint, I only see bigger & better things in 2012!

Cyclops, you are a champion! Frank, don’t overthink this – get that frame built up and let’s start racing cross! We need those Velominati skinsuits for next year.

We should seriously consider a women’s division for the Rule V award. Yeah, I’m putting this in the wrong forum, but hey…I’m typing here… /threadjack

That frame looks slick! Very, very nice Cyclops!

I picked the orange because it reeks of Molteni, Merckx, The V-Kit, Velominati, the Dutch, The – V, etc. And with a carbon fork and the carbon stays it looks badass!

Dirty little secret – frame builders are glorified plumbers.
I started with a $16 book, a $60 Mapp/Oxy torch from the Home Despot, and regular shop/hand tools. Read my blog, get the book, and buy some cheapo tubes and lugs and start brazing.

I wish I had something witty or smart to say here but I don’t. All I can do repeat was has already been stated and that is what an outstanding job and display of not only talent but generosity! You should be very proud at how this not only looks but turned out. I’m curious about why that color? Is it Frank’s favorite color or did you pick it out because it will look great with the V kit aboard?

@Frank

I can’t help out on the parts list but I agree on the wheels for the same reason as you. Hand built custom frame hand deserves built custom wheels. I would love to be around for that first race when everyone is asking about the bike to see the smile on your face as you tell the tale.

fasthair

@napolinige
Good thought as well, though its the only wheelset I have that I’m not sure how to convert…I’ll have to investigate.

@all
Also, what forks are better for CX?

will be there until the superbowl is done
thanks for patience holy merckx

trp’s though if your all about the strength and they are ‘euro’

I have been toying with this too, in fact a friend of mine who owns the LBS 60 miles away has been seriously going into it for just low end frames to get started and touring frames.

I have been thinking of just doing it for fun for myself and a friend or 2 if they wanted. I have the paint-guns, studied the geometries, had other buddies go to a local engineering school and literally got a masters degree in framebuilding and like you seen them do it, but I am a father, worker, busy guy and not got the formalities of training or on the job training. Here in the midwest, welders are always coming up at farm auctions, but I don’t really know which one to pick up and any details from there. which welder did you start with if you don’t mind my asking?? And how did you get set up or where did you go to learn this stuff? I would be forever grateful for a few helpful hints on that. That is just a great deal you did, and very cool.

congrats to you on that!

@frank
Which if any of your existing wheelsets has a Shimano freehub body or can be converted to one?

Excellent question. I think the Royce freehub must be convertible, but I don’t know for sure. Other than that, all of my wheels can be converted.

@allOk, yeah, yeah, beautiful frame, yeah yeah. Whatever. Down to business. How am I building this up? I need opinions on kit so I have something to ignore when I get around to making decisions.
SO. Do I build wheels? I’ve also been wanting to go with Firecrest wheels for the #1 (maybe tubbies) and then could move the 404″²s to either Bike #3 or the CX bike – if I move the 404″²s to the CX bike, that frees up the Ksyriums on there now for Nederaap.
How does wheel strength figure for CX? Or, I build, since I assume I’m a badass wheel builder now. Seems kinda fitting, too, with a handbuilt frame to run handbuilt wheels. On the other hand, deep-section wheels seems to be very sensible for CX as it helps keep the shit off the cantis.
Which begs the next question: which cantis do I go for?

I am a newbie too at this Frank, and running gravel roads ready for midwest gravel grinders/races. I subscribe to the ‘if you don’t finish, its no good’ no matter how lite or fast. So I run some mavic classics on my cross ride, they are traditional open pro type rims, mavics indestructable hubs and all. Hit some hard enough downhills on it with pot holes and washboards that it flexed my frame and surly steel fork and it all made it fine. so in essence, those ksyriums are the toughest set IMHO and would dish it out in cx

The firecrests and tubbies will be all that if your running masters stud class, so i would save my do-ra-me for those babies.

your a lucky dog!