@Oli

Further, if you wrap inside to outside you actually are going across the winding with your grip, whereas if you wind outside-in you complement the winding, as shown clearly in these pics.

1. Outside-in

2. Inside-out

Oli totally validates this Park video.

Johan Lammerts, Frank Hoste, Eddy Planckaert (!), Johan Museeuw (!!!), to name but a few.

Exactly. Lammerts and Hoste were ex-TI Raleigh and those boys wrote the book on how to ride team time trials.

While we’re on the subject, Luca’s troubles are quite sad. I hope he gets things (and himself) sorted out. He was one of the first riders that I noticed when I started following the sport again last year. I know I’ll never be the lead a team — even in the lower categories — but if I start racing again, I like the idea of getting to the a place where I could be a savvy road captain or reliable domestique. Then, of course, Gent-Wevelgem. Wow.

Only a simple Cateye on the bars — during the week I ride on my lunch breaks, so I usually keep it on speed and clock to make sure I’m back on schedule. If I’m not on a schedule, I’ll display elapsed time.

Pockets are keys on the left, wallet on the right, phone and casquette in the middle. Food and arm warmers get evenly distributed as appropriate. I enjoy Strava (if only to check in with @chuckp), so I have that going but out of sight.

Nice read – cheers.

One thing that baffled me a bit was why the author (on page 3 of the article, approximately mid-page) insists on taking such a dump on the ADR-team as a whole? Quote: “The first big test for the ADR team as a collective came two days later with a 48-km team time trial. Greg and the eight nobodies who wore the same uniform surpassed low expectations with a fifth-place finish…etc…” Unquote.

Really? Those 8 professional cyclists who were arguably among the 120 best in the world at the time – and who came in fifth(!) in a TTT in the TdF, of all races, FFS – were nobodies?? I cannot help wondering if the author wanted to make Greg Lemond appear as even more of a demigod by trivializing the efforts of his teammates? Unkind and disrespectful, to say the least. (And I have this odd feeling that Greg Lemond might agree…)

@edster99

@frank

Well, I’ve never had a problem with tape rolling. You can make the tape go in whatever direction you like as you come over the shifters, if you are paranoid about the tape rolling and looking shit – which is a perfectly legitimate concern, but unwarranted.

I always tape in a clockwise direction and finish on the tops with the tape coming towards me – that way your hands naturally tighten the tape. Learned the hard way back in the day with Benotto tape that didn’t have an adhesive backing.

Does not compute coz the sides need to go on opposite directions – happen your are only talking about the right hand side?

@frank

Well, I’ve never had a problem with tape rolling. You can make the tape go in whatever direction you like as you come over the shifters, if you are paranoid about the tape rolling and looking shit – which is a perfectly legitimate concern, but unwarranted.

I always tape in a clockwise direction and finish on the tops with the tape coming towards me – that way your hands naturally tighten the tape. Learned the hard way back in the day with Benotto tape that didn’t have an adhesive backing.

Thanks for the link. Awesome stuff but it is not mentioned that Fignon had  bad saddle sore that affected his performance. LeMond’s ride was still astounding though.

@MangoDave

Here’s a recent article about LeMond’s famous time trial victory in 1989. He didn’t even want his team manager shouting out time splits, no excess information to distract him from dishing out pure V.

http://www.active.com/cycling/articles/lemond-s-mental-toughness

@RobSandy, @SamV

There’s also a section in the middle that discusses of pacing and tempering your effort, even when you think you’re going at 100%.

Inspiring, thanks.

I concur. Thanks for the link, @MangoDave. Great read.

Here’s a recent article about LeMond’s famous time trial victory in 1989. He didn’t even want his team manager shouting out time splits, no excess information to distract him from dishing out pure V.

http://www.active.com/cycling/articles/lemond-s-mental-toughness

@RobSandy, @SamV

There’s also a section in the middle that discusses of pacing and tempering your effort, even when you think you’re going at 100%.

Inspiring, thanks.

It’s in the drops where it really counts.

Well, I’ve never had a problem with tape rolling.  You can make the tape go in whatever direction you like as you come over the shifters, if you are paranoid about the tape rolling and looking shit – which is a perfectly legitimate concern, but unwarranted.

http://www.active.com/cycling/articles/lemond-s-mental-toughness

@RobSandy, @SamV

There’s also a section in the middle that discusses of pacing and tempering your effort, even when you think you’re going at 100%.

@Haldy

@Chipomarc

Anyway, time to get back on topic – which was the benefits of training with a power meter and uploading data to WKO

Jeez..think he can get Pandora on one of those?

I bet the numbers never match! A rider with one number is always sure. A rider with two numbers is never sure.

That’s why you should always ride with three computers and do a running average as you go.

@edster99

Nope, that’s completely wrong it means the overlap on the drops is arse-backwards and the tape will roll and look shit in short order. No matter what way you wrap your tape don’t ever wrap it top to bottom…at least not if you want any sort of Velominati cred whatsoever.

Finally we can agree on something!

Just as a matter of course, I slapped some Benotto tape on the bars of my Bianchi for a while in the summer. I wrapped those your way because they don’t have adhesive. New tape has adhesive so the unwinding this is irrelevant. I’ve never had a tape job unwind, and I’ve done my fair share of trying to rip the bars off going uphill.

@Chipomarc

Anyway, time to get back on topic – which was the benefits of training with a power meter and uploading data to WKO

Jeez..think he can get Pandora on one of those?

I bet the numbers never match! A rider with one number is always sure. A rider with two numbers is never sure.

Anyway, time to get back on topic – which was the benefits of training with a power meter and uploading data to WKO

Jeez..think he can get Pandora on one of those?

But what would Steve Snowling know? He does it the same way as Frank!

There’s a reason electrical tape is called electrical tape. It’s because it is used for electrical jobs, FFS! Start at the middle, tape to the bar ends, seal in place with the plugs. What is WRONG with you people !!!

Whoa, whoa whoa…everything else I’ve seen/read says start from the bar ends. Start from the middle of the bars and finish at the ends? Wow.

Seductive, the dark side is.

I hear your toilets flush the wrong direction too.

We used to change direction at the levers, overhand on the drops then underhand on the tops. Modern wrap doesn’t creep so much, but I still put a layer of hockey tape down first: shit ain’t going nowhere.

Nope, that’s completely wrong it means the overlap on the drops is arse-backwards and the tape will roll and look shit in short order. No matter what way you wrap your tape don’t ever wrap it top to bottom…at least not if you want any sort of Velominati cred whatsoever.

Agree with with you Oli.

Shouldn’t be any question on taping bars.  Back in 1986 Steve Snowling’s book shows the correct way how to tape bars. Always from the bottom up.

Nope, that’s completely wrong it means the overlap on the drops is arse-backwards and the tape will roll and look shit in short order. No matter what way you wrap your tape don’t ever wrap it top to bottom…at least not if you want any sort of Velominati cred whatsoever.

@Haldy

@chuckp

@Haldy

I have my computer on my road bike all the time, but often don’t even look at it until I stop it at the end of the ride. I can be plugged in and still ride unplugged. I think that’s the best way to ride. The info is there if I want it, or for targetted training need it for bits of guidance, but there is no need to be a slave to it. That would ruin the ride.

Exactly how I ride.

Love the bike and kit. Real men wear pink.

Why yes..yes we do.

Had to come back to your pic, your teammate- (although pushing some uber gears also) looks like he has gone with the small frame, tweek the snot out of the seat post, bars and stem method. You look like you sized correctly and have everything in proportion and look much more relaxed on your bike.

On my TK2 I sized “correctly” and now am going through the fun task of just messing with the smallest of tweeks to get the most speed out of each small “improvement”.

Would a computer help this, sure- some data to go with feed-back on how I feel on the bike would be nice. A power meter would be the cats-ass, but tough on the wallet, that would have to be one of those buy used from someone I know and trust that is going up a model or has to have the 2016 version of what on his bike now.

Randy( my teammate) is pushing the same 51×15 gear. As for the fit..you nailed. This could turn into a LONG comment on custom handbuilt( my Don Walker frame) vs off the shelf cookie-cutter frames( his Dolan). Short and simple..I know exactly how I want my bike to handle and feel, and pair that with Don’s knowledge and skill and I end up with beautiful bikes( I have 4 of his frames..). The most amazing thing is the seat tube. My track bike has and extended seat tube. I gave Don my saddle height, what saddle and what post I was going to use and when the frame showed up, put the seat on the post, slammed the post and the saddle was millimeter perfect at the correct height. Same for the stem. That baby is slammed and no spacers underneath, and right where it needs to be.

There’s a reason electrical tape is called electrical tape. It’s because it is used for electrical jobs, FFS! Start at the middle, tape to the bar ends, seal in place with the plugs. What is WRONG with you people !!!

and that’ll indeed save me from attempting, and usually not well, to get the final trim at just the right angle! This is interesting thinking here yes.

sock game, en pointe.

Further, if you wrap inside to outside you actually are going across the winding with your grip, whereas if you wind outside-in you complement the winding, as shown clearly in these pics.

1. Outside-in

2. Inside-out

This theory is bogus because when you’re honking most of the torque from hand goes towards the inside of the ‘bars on the higher side as much as it does towards the outside on the lower ‘bar when chucking the ‘bars from side to side. The only rule is to go from bottom to top to avoid the tape peeling back when on the tops.

I know pro and shop mechanics (and pro and shop videos) that are outside-in and inside-out, and some pro mechanics even wind both sides of the ‘bars opposite as they just continue the wind all the way from one ‘bar end to the other.

As long as your winding is tight, tidy and even you are doing it right, no matter what Frank would have you believe. Anyway, who would listen to a guy who is set up that badly on his bike?

@chuckp

Nalini brand mark on those bibs. How do you rate their (long duration) pad in those on a scale of 5 to 10?

Actually, they are Pactimo. Can’t remember the exact model, but they’re an older model year that I got on closeout (3 bibs and 3 shorts — the latter I use on the spin bike indoors) when I started back riding again last year. I like them. Probably a little shorter leg length than other manufacturers. Mesh upper that’s comfortable and doesn’t cut into you. 8 or 10 panels. “Old fashioned” leg gripper, which I actually like (I like the newer compression gripper too). For me, the pad is comfortable. The longest ride I’ve done it is 70-something miles (~4 hours in the saddle). No complaints. Kinda wish I’d bought a couple more before they sold out of them.

Nalini brand mark on those bibs. How do you rate their (long duration) pad in those on a scale of 5 to 10?

@chuckp

@Haldy

I have my computer on my road bike all the time, but often don’t even look at it until I stop it at the end of the ride. I can be plugged in and still ride unplugged. I think that’s the best way to ride. The info is there if I want it, or for targetted training need it for bits of guidance, but there is no need to be a slave to it. That would ruin the ride.

Exactly how I ride.

Love the bike and kit. Real men wear pink.

Why yes..yes we do.

Had to come back to your pic, your teammate- (although pushing some uber gears also) looks like he has gone with the small frame, tweek the snot out of the seat post, bars and stem method.  You look like you sized correctly and have everything in proportion and look much more relaxed on your bike.

On my TK2 I sized “correctly” and now am going through the fun task of just messing with the smallest of tweeks to get the most speed out of each small “improvement”.

Would a computer help this, sure- some data to go with feed-back on how I feel on the bike would be nice. A power meter would be the cats-ass, but tough on the wallet, that would have to be one of those buy used from someone I know and trust that is going up a model or has to have the 2016 version of what on his bike now.

@chuckp

@Haldy

Love the bike and kit. Real men wear pink.

Why yes..yes we do.

I’m sure @frank will give me grief for both #27 and #28 violations.

@Haldy

I have my computer on my road bike all the time, but often don’t even look at it until I stop it at the end of the ride. I can be plugged in and still ride unplugged. I think that’s the best way to ride. The info is there if I want it, or for targetted training need it for bits of guidance, but there is no need to be a slave to it. That would ruin the ride.

Exactly how I ride.

Love the bike and kit. Real men wear pink.

Why yes..yes we do.

@chuckp

@RedRanger

@chuckp

Looks exactly like the way I taped my bars.

@frank blessed my tape job (#85 above) so it must be the right way.

You wrap the tape outwards so it tightens rather than loosens when you grip the bars, right?

I’m planning to take on my first retaping after Christmas (on my new Rotundos!) so I want to get this shit right.

I don’t think outwards makes any difference in terms of how loose/tight the tape is when you grip it. I suppose it could make some difference in how easily/smoothly your hands slide on the bars. Just do it like in the video and you’ll be fine. The important thing is to make sure the tape is wrapped “forward” on the tops of the bars once your past the brake hoods.

@RedRanger

@chuckp

Looks exactly like the way I taped my bars.

@frank blessed my tape job (#85 above) so it must be the right way.

You wrap the tape outwards so it tightens rather than loosens when you grip the bars, right?

I’m planning to take on my first retaping after Christmas (on my new Rotundos!) so I want to get this shit right.

@chuckp

I guess he is. I challenge everyone – leave your cell phone/garmin/cyclometer at home on your next ride. When you return, the world will still be spinning and you will see, hear, and smell things you would have missed looking at that dang piece of technology. Distracts you from the ride.

My phone doesn’t distract me from my ride because it’s in my jersey pocket and I don’t take it out unless my wife calls me because I know she wouldn’t call me unless it’s an emergency of some sort. And I want my phone with me in case of a serious mechanical or other mishap so I can call for help if I need it (in the worst/most extreme case … 911). It has nothing to do with being important (well, hopefully I’m important to my family); it’s all about safety.

And my GPS (really just a GPS enabled basic cycle computer that displays distance/speed/time of day) doesn’t distract me either because I rarely look at it and really only use it to download the data from my ride to Strava afterwards (mostly to keep track of how many miles I’ve ridden).

Per @Haldy you can ride unplugged (and I pretty much do) even with “stuff.”

I guess he is.  I challenge everyone – leave your cell phone/garmin/cyclometer at home on your next ride.  When you return, the world will still be spinning and you will see, hear, and smell things you would have missed looking at that dang piece of technology.  Distracts you from the ride.

@chuckp

Looks exactly like the way I taped my bars.

@frank blessed my tape job (#85 above) so it must be the right way.

@SamV

That said, another guy and I were commenting on all his gadgets. I said something like “I usually just push till I have tunnel vision and then back off just slightly.” He replied “Sounds like a recipe for blowing up.”

How many times have you actually blown up fully? I find that even when you’re totally redlining you are actually still pacing yourself. I blew up halfway up a short punchy hill today, and that was unusual.

I did however, blow up when attacking off the front in a race last year, and it’s by using HR and data more carefully I hope to avoid this next season. Also, by Rules #5 and #10…

Doesn’t happen often, but when it does, a shower and a couple Recovery Ales usually leads to a level of satisfaction when asking “why did I do that myself?”

Because it’s awesome.

There’s definitely some subconscious pacing that happens, even while redlining. Obviously I don’t redline the whole route, and feel out when I can or can’t throw myself into an effort. And in the back of my mind, I know that when my vision starts to darken, I’m working too hard. Some of the roads I ride are very rural and it would be a long time till someone noticed me on the shoulder, should I overcommit and pass out.

Over the course of a season, there are no more than a few times that I well and truly blow up and limp my way home. In general, I can judge recovery time from the previous effort. If my legs are still wobbly or my pulse is still thumping in my head after a few more relaxed KMs, I start to get the sense that the remainder of the ride should be taken a bit more conservatively, or at least, I should allow a little longer to recover.

Looks exactly like the way I taped my bars.

I would love to see a video of how you wrap bars

I don’t know if you mean you want to see a video of @frank wrapping bars, but here’s a pretty good one from Lizard Skins (I use their tape). Not sure what the consensus is in the V community about tape overlap at the bar end to stuff the bar end plug. I’ve done it that way. But also without the overlap.

@RedRanger

If you go the other way it makes a V. What you did is technically the right way but do you really want one of your three contact points to be Anti-V?

@Oli

@frank

The tape is totally the right way.

I would love to see a video of how you wrap bars

More important question, why are people attacking each other on group rides?

This is a Sunday shop ride (the store my wife works for) that I am a “ride leader” on. It’s not a club/racer ride and not your “typical” group ride. It’s a no drop/no one left behind ride and I typically ride lanterne rouge to make sure the last rider(s) make it to the rest stop and then back. It’s actually fun for me to ride lanterne rouge (usually with my riding pal, Jess) and it’s a social ride for us and I’m fine with that. The idea is that it’s intended as a “welcoming” ride for riders of a wide range of ability (but not rank beginners). And it’s an opportunity to teach people how to be better riders.

We divide up into an A group (the faster riders) and B group (the slower riders). Most of the people who ride are relatively strong riders (for each of their groups) but not what I would call very experienced. The groups stay mostly together but invariably people get hived off (particularly the A group). There’s a rest stop mid-way (it’s a short ride … maybe 35 miles) where everyone re-groups.

Anyway, a lot people (especially in the B group) just ride at their own pace. I think mostly because that’s what they’re used to doing. And because they don’t have a lot of group riding experience. There’s no rule that they have to ride together as a group. So it’s not that anyone is “attacking” per se but just that some riders in the B group are just “naturally” faster. And there are those who just want to ride faster but aren’t fast enough to ride with the A group. Not a big deal.

But I’ll often use that kind of situation to teach people that cycling isn’t always about their own individual effort but what they can do as a group to overcome someone who may be faster than them. I could ride with the A group (and sometimes do after the rest stop for one stretch of road where I can be the rabbit and get the hounds to chase me down), but it’s actually more fun for me to ride with the B group. I enjoy helping people learn how to ride better/smarter.

But it’s not a requirement for everyone (especially in the B group) to ride together if they don’t want to. I’ve had some riders tell me that they just want to ride at their own pace and aren’t interested in learning the dynamics of group riding. They just appreciate that there’s a ride that allows them to come out to ride.

@emerson

If a rider continues to rely on a computer and never developed a feeling for estimating speed and distance, then of course it is not a good idea to ride on feel with any group. Developing a proven feeling for time versus distance allows a rider to intercept and chase on effort alone, without actually seeing any other rider(s) up the road. I hope that you agree with this ChuckP.

Here’s a good (real life, actually happened) example of me putting a speedo to good use. A group ride with riders of “lesser” ability. Someone (or even a few people) decide they want to have a go and go off the front. The remaining riders want to “panic” and chase full bore straight away.

More important question, why are people attacking each other on group rides?

There’s a guy in my club who loves data. And he seems to have the discipline to use it properly – riding with him from beginning to end of the season, he was hands down the most improved and went from rookie to serious pain-maker very quickly.

I have a good (long-time) friend (the guy who got me into “serious” cycling) who went to the dark side of data. HRM. Power meter. Structured rides/workouts. As someone who now just rides to ride (and doesn’t do a lot of “fast” riding), I take great joy when we ride together (not often because of location/schedule) and can drop him.

That said, another guy and I were commenting on all his gadgets. I said something like “I usually just push till I have tunnel vision and then back off just slightly.” He replied “Sounds like a recipe for blowing up.”

How many times have you actually blown up fully? I find that even when you’re totally redlining you are actually still pacing yourself. I blew up halfway up a short punchy hill today, and that was unusual.

I did however, blow up when attacking off the front in a race last year, and it’s by using HR and data more carefully I hope to avoid this next season. Also, by Rules #5 and #10…

Doesn’t happen often, but when it does, a shower and a couple Recovery Ales usually leads to a level of satisfaction when asking “why did I do that myself?”

Because it’s awesome.

@RobSandy

A question for the more experienced racers; does data while racing help or hinder? I’m thinking TT’s, Crits and possibly road races. I’m thinking for TT’s I’d like to know my HR and how much of the course is left (i.e distance/time). Crits I want to know time of the race left. Is there standard practice for using data during races?

It totally depends on a two factors. The first is, are your parameters correct, i.e. do you have your max heartrate or power accurate (it changes with training) and therefore do you actually know your true thresholds. For most of us, the answer is no, so it is a hinderance. For the Pros, they probably have it right so it does help.

The second is about the human spirit and being able to surpass limits when adequately motivated. If you have the personality type of sticking to data, then you will be in a box and maybe you can go faster that you think. If you have a fuck-off personality, then you can go beyond that but you might also blow up and suck.

There’s a guy in my club who loves data. And he seems to have the discipline to use it properly – riding with him from beginning to end of the season, he was hands down the most improved and went from rookie to serious pain-maker very quickly.

That said, another guy and I were commenting on all his gadgets. I said something like “I usually just push till I have tunnel vision and then back off just slightly.” He replied “Sounds like a recipe for blowing up.”

Doesn’t happen often, but when it does, a shower and a couple Recovery Ales usually leads to a level of satisfaction when asking “why did I do that myself?”

Truth be told, a Garmin is on my shopping list for the coming year, more so for the GPS than anything else. I don’t usually have the time to get lost, so that’s really the main reason.

If a rider continues to rely on a computer and never developed a feeling for estimating speed and distance, then of course it is not a good idea to ride on feel with any group. Developing a proven feeling for time versus distance allows a rider to intercept and chase on effort alone, without actually seeing any other rider(s) up the road. I hope that you agree with this ChuckP.

Here’s a good (real life, actually happened) example of me putting a speedo to good use. A group ride with riders of “lesser” ability. Someone (or even a few people) decide they want to have a go and go off the front. The remaining riders want to “panic” and chase full bore straight away. Instead, I go to the front and tell them just to hold my wheel at a moderately fast but do-able pace for them. I look at my speedo to see how fast I’m going, let everyone know that that’s the speed we’re going to ride (and that they didn’t have to ride harder for us to make the catch), and maintain that speed knowing that everyone in the draft can hold it. I also know it’s fast enough to reel in the “breakaway” riders and we do … smoothly … and for those in my group, relatively effortlessly rather than thrashing about and maybe blowing themselves up before they bridge. No one in the group is knackered or dropped. Smiles all around. And they all learn a riding lesson that you can reel in a breakaway without having to surge immediately and put everyone in the red (and thereby potentially not reel it in).

I didn’t need my speedo to be able to do that. As you said “a proven feeling for time versus distance allows a rider to intercept and chase on effort alone.” I could see how far up the road the other riders were and could gauge how fast they were riding and knew I could ride fast(er) enough to bridge. But the speedo was a tool that allowed me to get the rest of the group to ride together.

@coachprops

FFS, what would Merckx say about all of this technology – BS? I only want the speed and the distance and the speed is never fast enough and the distance is never long enough. Take your next ride and leave the Garmin/phone/cyclometer at home. you’ll see and hear more than ever before – and never miss a beat. PS – the world is not going to shut down if you aren’t available for an hour. You aren’t that important, neither am I. I don’t own a cell phone – people can call me at work or at home, between that, I’m out riding and don’t want to talk to you anyway.

Welcome! And holy fuck, you don’t own a cell phone? Well done, sir.

Also, I am that important.

Yes, @Frank is a legend in his own mind.

I have my computer on my road bike all the time, but often don’t even look at it until I stop it at the end of the ride. I can be plugged in and still ride unplugged. I think that’s the best way to ride. The info is there if I want it, or for targetted training need it for bits of guidance, but there is no need to be a slave to it. That would ruin the ride.

Exactly how I ride.

Love the bike and kit. Real men wear pink.

@bea

This post tapped into one aspect that can change my perspective on choosing a good cycle-computer. @bea “the thing brought me to places which I would never have found by just following my nose…” Building legitimate routes is not always a straight forward process, especially on gravel and forsaken roads.

I never said my routes are always perfect (definitely not to ride with a road bike), but I would never have found them if it weren’t for my garmin…

@RobSandy

A question for the more experienced racers; does data while racing help or hinder? I’m thinking TT’s, Crits and possibly road races. I’m thinking for TT’s I’d like to know my HR and how much of the course is left (i.e distance/time). Crits I want to know time of the race left. Is there standard practice for using data during races?

It totally depends on a two factors. The first is, are your parameters correct, i.e. do you have your max heartrate or power accurate (it changes with training) and therefore do you actually know your true thresholds. For most of us, the answer is no, so it is a hinderance. For the Pros, they probably have it right so it does help.

The second is about the human spirit and being able to surpass limits when adequately motivated. If you have the personality type of sticking to data, then you will be in a box and maybe you can go faster that you think. If you have a fuck-off personality, then you can go beyond that but you might also blow up and suck.

Well I think I’ve worked out my threshold HR. But that appears to have changed over the last 6 months training. And to be honest I’m looking at it less and less, I can feel when I’m on the limit. It’s nice to glance down sometimes and see a lower HR than you were expecting if in a bunch ride – makes you realise you’re actually well in your comfort zone. That has happened to me.

I don’t know if I have a fuck-off personality, but comparing TTing and training for TTing I ALWAYS go faster in races. My main reason for having a HRM was to be able to keep myself right on the red line for the full 10 miles, which I’m not sure I did last season.

@chuckp

@freddy

If you can’t roll over smoothly and maintain a steady pace you’re not the shit-hot rider you think you are.

Yes, I’m not. When I’m in a fast chaingang I try to maintain speed on rhythm/cadence rather than looking at my display. I imagine a metronome tick-tick-tick in time with my pedals as I’m 2nd wheel and try to hold it.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: full wallet in center pocket on all rides. I never know when I’ll feel like swinging by the library and will need my borrower’s card.

WTF? Do you then tuck a load of books in your bibs and carry on your ride? You nutbar.

Sometimes a computer is handy to help you get home on time (like @chuckp say). Or for specific training sessions but blimey it is LUSH when you ride with nothing, not even a watch.

*(a lie)

I like this girl.

Euh… Thank you sir.

I have to dispute the pocket distribution in general that I’m seeing here. Heavy stuff goes in the middle, light stuff on the sides, people! Our pockets are not moto panniers! My phone is so light now, it goes in the right pocket, but until recently, it had to go in the middle. Keys, food etc goes in the sides.

I had the pleasure to fall with my back on my pump. Let’s say I prefer falling on my phone. Hence, phone in the middle, chunky stuff on the left, food on the right.

And we only carry the minimum gear right? (RIGHT?) so all essentials are in the middle, We don’t need that much shit.

We (I) only carry the minimum gear to get home (preferably cycling) without having to call the cavalerie to come and pick us up.

@Haldy

Interesting takes.for..against…staring at stems…being primarily a trackie in my racing pursuits…we( beginners all the way to the top level pros) are banned from looking at computers while we race on the track. It was deemed to dangerous for us to read our displays while we raced by the UCI. Not sure as I 100% agree with that..as my pic shows…I certainly am staring hard at my stem. Sure, no computer to look at, but buried in the detail of my fi’zi:k stem nonetheless. Also of note..I am still taking data…my computer is mounted behind my seat. Do I need it to know that I am drilling it..no. Does it help to look at later and see what my heart was pegged at and when. Yes. I have my computer on my road bike all the time, but often don’t even look at it until I stop it at the end of the ride. I can be plugged in and still ride unplugged. I think that’s the best way to ride. The info is there if I want it, or for targetted training need it for bits of guidance, but there is no need to be a slave to it. That would ruin the ride.

Looks like you are moving some very respectable gears there too, well-played.

Many thanks…I spent most of last season( and am in this pic) rolling a 51×15, on a couple of occasions I moved up to the 52×15.

The other way, not the right way.

Interesting takes.for..against…staring at stems…being primarily a trackie in my racing pursuits…we( beginners all the way to the top level pros) are banned from looking at computers while we race on the track. It was deemed to dangerous for us to read our displays while we raced by the UCI. Not sure as I 100% agree with that..as my pic shows…I certainly am staring hard at my stem. Sure, no computer to look at, but buried in the detail of my fi’zi:k stem nonetheless. Also of note..I am still taking data…my computer is mounted behind my seat. Do I need it to know that I am drilling it..no. Does it help to look at later and see what my heart was pegged at and when. Yes. I have my computer on my road bike all the time, but often don’t even look at it until I stop it at the end of the ride. I can be plugged in and still ride unplugged. I think that’s the best way to ride. The info is there if I want it, or for targetted training need it for bits of guidance, but there is no need to be a slave to it. That would ruin the ride.

Looks like you are moving some very respectable gears there too, well-played.

If a rider continues to rely on a computer and never developed a feeling for estimating speed and distance, then of course it is not a good idea to ride on feel with any group. Developing a proven feeling for time versus distance allows a rider to intercept and chase on effort alone, without actually seeing any other rider(s) up the road. I hope that you agree with this ChuckP.

I think the big lesson here is that we all need the computer at some point in our development, but as we become experienced we can chuck all that shit out the door. Very well put.

@Ron

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: full wallet in center pocket on all rides. I never know when I’ll feel like swinging by the library and will need my borrower’s card.

Whole lotta WTF going on there.

If at a public library watch out for the bed bug sniffing dogs.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=public+library+bed+bugs&biw=1280&bih=643&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjprOOc8fDJAhWipYMKHTiJD_wQ_AUIBygC

I love my garmin! (and I’m not going to apologize for it, I don’t even feel sorry for it)

Technically it’s not my garmin. I bought it for my husband, and he bought me a camera. After three weeks we swapped.

Unlike most, I’m not really interested in speed (most of the time it’s not even on the display), but I want to see my HR (and distance and time and then some other stuff just for fun (I like numbers)). Speed is useless, today I went along the river and there was ‘a bit’ of wind, 26km/h going out 37 km/h coming back. It’s good the 26km/h wasn’t on the display…

In general I have no problem killing myself, but I find it very difficult to retain myself. Most of my rides are scheduled training rides (not that I’m any good, hence the training), and then the HR is necessary. On the long(er) weekend-rides, I need the HR-monitor not to go too fast (which would be contra-productive, according the training-schedule-guy). It’s not that I should continuously check it, but I’m supposed to glance at it from time to time (however trying to hang out with the big guys is so much more fun).

Also, let’s be honest, the thing brought me to places which I would never have found by just following my nose…

As for my pockets:
left: ziplock with mini-pump, Co2, tire patch kit (with spare money, tire leavers, patches and dafalgan), mini-tool and spare food (which has melted and frozen and I really have to be desperate before I’m ever going to eat it)
middle: ziplock with money, card, house key and phone (with special ringtone for my husband, the rest I ignore) and a spare tire
right: food.

I like this girl.

I have to dispute the pocket distribution in general that I’m seeing here. Heavy stuff goes in the middle, light stuff on the sides, people! Our pockets are not moto panniers! My phone is so light now, it goes in the right pocket, but until recently, it had to go in the middle. Keys, food etc goes in the sides. And we only carry the minimum gear right? (RIGHT?) so all essentials are in the middle, We don’t need that much shit.

Thoreau said simplify. Thoreau that other shit away!

FFS, what would Merckx say about all of this technology – BS? I only want the speed and the distance and the speed is never fast enough and the distance is never long enough. Take your next ride and leave the Garmin/phone/cyclometer at home. you’ll see and hear more than ever before – and never miss a beat. PS – the world is not going to shut down if you aren’t available for an hour. You aren’t that important, neither am I. I don’t own a cell phone – people can call me at work or at home, between that, I’m out riding and don’t want to talk to you anyway.

Welcome! And holy fuck, you don’t own a cell phone? Well done, sir.

Also, I am that important.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: full wallet in center pocket on all rides. I never know when I’ll feel like swinging by the library and will need my borrower’s card.

Whole lotta WTF going on there.

I’m trying to answer the math question in the photo, but I need to know the distance between them prior.

The answer is V.

@Oli

I don’t need some fucking device to tell me I’m slow as shit.

Word.

That said, I use a Soleus Draft GPS. Pretty sure it’s no longer made as it wasn’t all that popular (I got two with Bar Fly mounts for me and my wife for less than the price of one without a Bar Fly). It’s pretty basic and tells me what I want/need to know when I’m riding: distance/speed/time of day. Downloads to Strava. And it’s compact (not much bigger than a standard Cateye or Sigma that runs off a magnet on you wheel).

Thank you for wrapping your bars the V way. Makes up for some of your other style transgressions!

If a rider continues to rely on a computer and never developed a feeling for estimating speed and distance, then of course it is not a good idea to ride on feel with any group. Developing a proven feeling for time versus distance allows a rider to intercept and chase on effort alone, without actually seeing any other rider(s) up the road. I hope that you agree with this ChuckP.

I wouldn’t disagree or argue. I don’t “need” my computer to ride. And I don’t rely on it. But the data has its uses when used properly. I don’t think it’s a black-and-white, either-or proposition. Some have proposed relying almost solely on their on V-meter to gauge their riding. Fine for solo riding. Or making an effort to bridge a gap. I’d argue less fine for group riding if you’re actually trying to keep a group together. Your V-meter is different than mine. You may not have to go very deep to put me in the red zone. Fine if all you want to do is drop me. Not so fine if we’re actually trying to ride together.

A question for the more experienced racers; does data while racing help or hinder? I’m thinking TT’s, Crits and possibly road races. I’m thinking for TT’s I’d like to know my HR and how much of the course is left (i.e distance/time). Crits I want to know time of the race left. Is there standard practice for using data during races?

It totally depends on a two factors. The first is, are your parameters correct, i.e. do you have your max heartrate or power accurate (it changes with training) and therefore do you actually know your true thresholds. For most of us, the answer is no, so it is a hinderance. For the Pros, they probably have it right so it does help.

The second is about the human spirit and being able to surpass limits when adequately motivated. If you have the personality type of sticking to data, then you will be in a box and maybe you can go faster that you think. If you have a fuck-off personality, then you can go beyond that but you might also blow up and suck.

@chuckp

@frank

When you go to the front of the line, just keep the rhythm. The pressure in your legs will be different but it is the same as riding on a flat and maintaining speed up a false flat; you just apply some more pressure to the pedals and keep the legs turning over as they were.

The data in this case is really just the result – train your body to feel what it takes to shift between an incline or taking the wind on the shoulder. It can become very intuitive.

If you’re riding with experienced racers and you’re all familiar with each other, I’d agree you can do this. But I honestly don’t think this works for most “average” riders on most “average” group rides.

But then again, this isn’t a community for “average” riders, is it? Now before anyone gets too pissy with that statement…

A Velominatus welcomes all cyclists but is observant of Rule #3 when doing so. Part of the way of the cyclist is learning how to use the V-meter (and avoid whatever the hell @Chipomarc has going on in that photo up there). Can you feel whether or not you are going XX.xx km/h? Probably not, but you can feel how deeply you are drawing on the V-bank and for how long you can sustain that withdrawal.

So far, the only thing valuable a head unit has every told me is what I already knew by listening to my legs and lungs.

Always nice to compare how the V-Meter is running to your Current HR and Current Power output.

One other metric that is happy displaying itself during the ride is how much TSS you have built up so far.

If you go the other way it makes a V. What you did is technically the right way but do you really want one of your three contact points to be Anti-V?

@Oli

@frank

The tape is totally the right way.

@chuckp

@freddy

Ditched the computer two years ago. iPhone in the middle back pocket logs my ride on Strava. I’m good…except for one thing: gauging the group speed when it’s my turn at the front of the pace line. Thinking about a RFLKT or something else that works with my phone to display speed. My bike has ANT+ so that’s another possibility. Am I going to hell?

Nothing worse than someone on a group ride who doesn’t know what speed the group is riding (even if the group is just two or three of you) and tries to do it based on “feel.” Sorry, but you can’t “feel” speed.

Bullshit. Of course you can. If you can’t roll over smoothly and maintain a steady pace you’re not the shit-hot rider you think you are. There is always one jack hole who tries to pile on 4 or 5 kph when they roll over, which gives everyone the shits but that’s just inattention and/or not knowing better. Seen riders with garmins, power meters, all sorts do it.

You need some sort of device to tell you how fast you’re going.

Nope.

If I tell you to ride at xx mph, you can do that based on “feel”? I seriously doubt it. And a one mph difference makes a difference. That’s my only point. Per one of my other posts, if you’re riding with a bunch of other experienced riders and you all have more or less the same experience, then fine. Y’all ought to be able to ride together perfectly well. But that’s not most riders or most rides … speaking generally … not speaking to you or this group.

First post, been vouyering a long while (is that a word)

Over 20 years have used many varieties of speed, cadence, HR etc etc, even a heads up unit.

In the end I figured I dont need any of it. If I cant remember a ride I will go back n do it again. Alhzeimers is wonderfull, I go new places n have a new wife everday. No racing anymore so not trying to prove my V commitment.

I abide by most of the rules and try hard everyday to do better.

Cheers one n all

Welcome sir!

On a lighter note; does anyone else think that froome is the image of Jimmy Somerville (of bronski beat/communards)?

No amount of Data or beeps from my Garmin was going to let me catch this prick last night !

@Barracuda

@frank I ride harder and faster with my Garmin 800 on my bike, BUT, I have more fun and less stress and enjoy the ride more without.

Says it all I think

This brings up my major problem with Strava, heart rate monitors, and power meters in the hands of people without the background or discipline to understand how to use them. (I’m not saying you’re one of them, but I’m also not saying you’re not!)

Strava and the segments and KOM’s (which are widely misused as a term to describe more than just having the fastest time up a hill, FFS) promote rampant overuse of high intensity, never allowing for an easy ride up a climb without trying to go for a PR or KOM. It settles in and grabs hold of your competitive spirit.

HR and power are the same, so long as you don’t have a good coach who can really help you understand your maximum and your thresholds, and then it all focuses on discipline and true – genuine – training. Which is a very cool, rewarding process and some of us have experienced it to great satisfaction.

But training is its own liberation; the liberty of riding untethered is something else entirely. The freedom to go butt-ass slow, or to lay down the five up a monster grinder just because the legs have a little Merckx in them that day.

You’re right, I’m both !

@frank

When you go to the front of the line, just keep the rhythm. The pressure in your legs will be different but it is the same as riding on a flat and maintaining speed up a false flat; you just apply some more pressure to the pedals and keep the legs turning over as they were.

The data in this case is really just the result – train your body to feel what it takes to shift between an incline or taking the wind on the shoulder. It can become very intuitive.

If you’re riding with experienced racers and you’re all familiar with each other, I’d agree you can do this. But I honestly don’t think this works for most “average” riders on most “average” group rides.

But then again, this isn’t a community for “average” riders, is it? Now before anyone gets too pissy with that statement…

A Velominatus welcomes all cyclists but is observant of Rule #3 when doing so. Part of the way of the cyclist is learning how to use the V-meter (and avoid whatever the hell @Chipomarc has going on in that photo up there). Can you feel whether or not you are going XX.xx km/h? Probably not, but you can feel how deeply you are drawing on the V-bank and for how long you can sustain that withdrawal.

So far, the only thing valuable a head unit has every told me is what I already knew by listening to my legs and lungs.

I run with Strava on the iphone, back in the jersey, tucked away. Never look at it, until the ride is all done. End Ride.

Most of the people who are Garmin enabled do seem to be too plugged in. And the wanks with an iphone 6 on the bars should get a good talking too. Ridiculous. They couldn’t find the “V-way” with all the help in the world.

@freddy

Ditched the computer two years ago. iPhone in the middle back pocket logs my ride on Strava. I’m good…except for one thing: gauging the group speed when it’s my turn at the front of the pace line. Thinking about a RFLKT or something else that works with my phone to display speed. My bike has ANT+ so that’s another possibility. Am I going to hell?

Nothing worse than someone on a group ride who doesn’t know what speed the group is riding (even if the group is just two or three of you) and tries to do it based on “feel.” Sorry, but you can’t “feel” speed.

Bullshit. Of course you can. If you can’t roll over smoothly and maintain a steady pace you’re not the shit-hot rider you think you are. There is always one jack hole who tries to pile on 4 or 5 kph when they roll over, which gives everyone the shits but that’s just inattention and/or not knowing better. Seen riders with garmins, power meters, all sorts do it.

You need some sort of device to tell you how fast you’re going.

Nope.

This post tapped into one aspect that can change my perspective on choosing a good cycle-computer. @bea “the thing brought me to places which I would never have found by just following my nose…” Building legitimate routes is not always a straight forward process, especially on gravel and forsaken roads.

Technically it’s not my garmin. I bought it for my husband, and he bought me a camera. After three weeks we swapped.

Unlike most, I’m not really interested in speed (most of the time it’s not even on the display), but I want to see my HR (and distance and time and then some other stuff just for fun (I like numbers)). Speed is useless, today I went along the river and there was ‘a bit’ of wind, 26km/h going out 37 km/h coming back. It’s good the 26km/h wasn’t on the display…

In general I have no problem killing myself, but I find it very difficult to retain myself. Most of my rides are scheduled training rides (not that I’m any good, hence the training), and then the HR is necessary. On the long(er) weekend-rides, I need the HR-monitor not to go too fast (which would be contra-productive, according the training-schedule-guy). It’s not that I should continuously check it, but I’m supposed to glance at it from time to time (however trying to hang out with the big guys is so much more fun).

Also, let’s be honest, the thing brought me to places which I would never have found by just following my nose…

As for my pockets:
left: ziplock with mini-pump, Co2, tire patch kit (with spare money, tire leavers, patches and dafalgan), mini-tool and spare food (which has melted and frozen and I really have to be desperate before I’m ever going to eat it)
middle: ziplock with money, card, house key and phone (with special ringtone for my husband, the rest I ignore) and a spare tire
right: food.

FFS, what would Merckx say about all of this technology – BS?  I only want the speed and the distance and the speed is never fast enough and the distance is never long enough.  Take your next ride and leave the Garmin/phone/cyclometer at home.  you’ll see and hear more than ever before – and never miss a beat.  PS – the world is not going to shut down if you aren’t available for an hour.  You aren’t that important, neither am I.  I don’t own a cell phone – people can call me at work or at home, between that, I’m out riding and don’t want to talk to you anyway.

I don’t need a HR monitor – If my heart is beating faster than my cadence rate then I know I need to go steady! All I use the Garmin for is to figure out what route I just took at the end of the group ride cos I spend most of the time staring at the wheel in front in an effort to avoid being dropped.

I used a HRM back when it was still relatively new technology (late 80s/early 90s) and I was racing. Had utility to help keep you from overtraining by quantifying your thresholds and limits. Useful for individual efforts like a time trial. But more a sado-masochistic measuring device. On long climbs, seeing how long I could hold 180bpm and drop everyone. Or knowing you were about to explode and be left on the side of the road. I remember once seeing my heart rate go to 200bpm (not just a spike) and I didn’t go into cardiac arrest. That was kinda cool.

Just because you have a GPS or some other bike computer doesn’t mean you have to be all Chris Froome and stare at it all the time. When I’m out solo, I don’t worry at all how fast I’m going. I ride as fast or as slow as I ride. When I’m with other folks, I only worry about speed if we’re trying to keep the group together, i.e., what’s a good pace that suits everyone. If I’m out with the young guns, I look to see how fast we’re going mostly to confirm just how much I suck as I try to hang onto a wheel. And climbing, speed doesn’t matter at all. It’s all about how the body feels, how hard you think you can go, and how long you can sustain it … or not.

The data I actually care about when I’m out riding is distance (as I usually have in mind how long a ride I want to do) and time of day (what time did I say I would be home?)

Precisely!

I don’t look at my Garmin Touring whilst riding as I can’t focus on the screen without optical lens – and then I wouldn’t be able to focus on the road ahead unless I fitted variable focus lens which are ridiculously expensive for my Rudi Rydon II shades.

I don’t need a HR monitor – If my heart is beating faster than my cadence rate then I know I need to go steady!  All I use the Garmin for is to figure out what route I just took at the end of the group ride cos I spend most of the time staring at the wheel in front in an effort to avoid being dropped.

Agree with the one wallet. I did the thin bike wallet and big main wallet for off bike life before.

But would find myself going to pay to cashier for a week’s worth of food and debit card would be in other wallet.

I live almost on the Canadian / U.S. border it’s easy to head across for nice riding roads and Mt Baker so I ride with my passport quite often and always worried about losing it on a ride.

I carry a Cateye wireless computer in my left jersey pocket. I like to track total time and distance, plus know how many KMs are on parts. This allows me to do that, while keeping my bars and stem clean.

I’m on a computer all day long. Being in the saddle is time to get away.

Every true Cyclist should be expected to routinely ride more than 8 hours a in a day.

Sucks for big rides.  I was hoping to be able to do a mid ride recharge during the Dirty Kanza (200 miles er.. 320 KM) this June but now it’s back to the drawing board.

Honestly and with a certain amount of shame I have to confess I think I look a fair bit like Froome on the bike, especially when I’m suffering. I mean, I don’t think I have the full ‘spider-humping-lightbulb’ elbows out look (at least I hope not), but I find my head nodding, staring at my stem a bit, head to one side…