Kelly crushes fools with properly layered kit.

Dress Like An Onion: The Art of Layering

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The thing about the cold is that you can never tell how cold it is from looking out a kitchen window. You have to dress up, get out training and when you come back, you then know how cold it is.

– Sean Kelly

Apart from the obvious lesson in Rules #5 and #9, hidden within Sean’s sage advice lies a paradox: if we can never tell how cold it is until we’ve arrived home from our ride, then how are we to determine how much kit to wear?

The Kelly Paradox is the layering equivalent of the Goldilocks Principle, wherein we aim to be neither overdressed, causing us to overheat sweat excessively, nor underdressed, causing us to needlessly lose energy through shivering and to hate life at a conceptual level. By extension, it also implies that whatever choice you make, you will get it wrong.

The answer lies in the art of layering, wherein one deploys several layers of clothing that can be unzipped, shed, and added back as both the temperature and the engine room heat up and cool back down throughout a ride.

The first rule of kitting up is that we should expect to be chilly for the first ten or fifteen minutes, allowing for the body to warm up and start producing its own heat to counter the cool outside temperatures. But this may not account for changing temperatures throughout the ride, and therefor we will need to be prepared to alter the composition of the kit.

The second rule of kitting up is that unless it is mid-summer, you are likely to misjudge the weather, so you should be prepared to make adjustments en route. Please observe the following pointers when kitting up for your ride.

  1. Always wear a base layer, which should be made of wicking material and is designed to keep the skin of your torso dry. In colder weather, heavier wool base layers may be used as an insulation layer against the skin.
  2. Long Sleeve jerseys and full leggings are always encouraged at the café for pre-ride espressi unless it is genuinely warm and sunny, in which case one is encouraged to bask in the sun and admire you own guns, Boonen-style.
  3. Arm warmers are preferable to long sleeve jerseys unless the weather is sufficiently cool or the temp sufficiently moderate to ensure the long sleeve jersey will not be shed throughout the ride. Arm warmers may be slipped down to the wrists for further cooling. Under no circumstances, however, are the sleeves of a long sleeve jersey to be pulled up towards the elbows to regulate temperature.
  4. A gilet should be considered before a long sleeve jersey as it can be easily removed and stowed mid-ride. A gilet should be light and close-fitting like a jersey. When stowing, fold flat in thirds from top to bottom, then in half along the zipper. Slip this between your jersey and bibs rather than into a jersey pocket. This should be done for bonus Casually Deliberate points while riding hands-free.
  5. It is acceptable for any and all layers to be unzipped and allowed to flap in the wind, emphasizing how hard you are crushing it. Additional Casually Deliberate points are also available for zipping back up while riding hands-free, particularly when doing so while cresting a climb with fools suffering on your wheel.

// Accessories and Gear // Etiquette // Look Pro // The Hardmen

  1. @wiscot

    @Matt

    @Chipomarc

    This guys don’t seem to be in agreement on the kit needed for the ride.

    Yeah, but they’re also riding with only half a fork.

    I think that’s why they’ve stopped. “Fuck me, mateys, anyone seen my right fork?”

    I like the guy in the center. “Hold the fuck on guys… Before we start, Jimmy needs a lesson in dressin.”

  2. @chuckp

    Another factor is your ancestry/ethnic heritage. Those of you with Nordic genes are probably going to tolerate cold weather a lot better than those of with tropical/island (in my case, my parents were from the Philippines) genes.

    I can see that. I don’t start wishing for knee/arm warmers before 10C at the start of the ride. I also think a healthy rule 33 violation combined with my built in insulation can be a substitute for early knee warmer application. If I manage to get down to climbing weight, I may have to revisit my layering/temperature coordination.

  3. @Matt

    @chuckp

    Perhaps the other fork leg was crushed and melted down to produce the necessary material for the 900mm bars the far left rider is using.

    One of my mates rides off road with bars that wide. It fucking freaks me out. Looks like he’s riding his bike with a broom.

  4. @Haldy

    @frank

    @teleguy57

    I wear LS myself quite a bit as well; the point is to only do that when you’re certain you won’t need to take the sleeves off. A great example was the Whidbey Cogal where we started in cool weather and finished in bare arms and legs. An LS jersey would have been a pain in the ass. (Although we had a team car, and @Haldy rode the whole day in long sleeves, full leggings, and overshoes WTF.

    You just don’t like my shoe covers because one is pink and one is blue. Not to mention the fact that you were an ungrateful bastard and didn’t wear the orange shoe covers I made the special effort to get hold of in time for the cogal, and you still have my scissors! I would also point out that I had to split off early to ride back down the Island and catch a ferry..thereby not having the support of said team car for the final 30 miles, and I was quite grateful for the layers the last 10 miles or so, it was cloudy and cold at the southern end of the island when I was back down there. Having done the solo run from my house to the top of Stevens Pass the week before..I was used to having to carry everything I started out with.

    Every time I looked over at you fully covered up on the cogal, it was enough to keep me warm. I would have overheated and shrivelled up under all that gear on that ride. I actually liked the one pink/one blue combination. Made me think of the old Lampre kit.

  5. @RobSandy

  6. @RobSandy

    I don’t get the trend towards ever widening handlebars. Way back in the 90s when MTB was all I ever did, the bars I had were just right for the single track through the forests of BC. Just the thought of riding through those same trails with the current ‘plus’ sized bars gives me the heebie jeebies.

  7. @Matt

    @RobSandy

    Fortunately, the antics of this young man look like they’re going to negate any possibilities of fatherhood.

    As for the layering, I run cool. (A pal sweats buckets in the same weather) I rarely, if ever take gear off that I’ve started with. I prefer to start a bit on the chilly side and warm up. Case in point, the Door County (WI) century this September. Starts at 7am. It was mid 40s. I was going to go base layer, short-sleeved jersey, arm warmers, shorts. Found out, to my horror, I’d packed one arm warmer and one knee warmer. Man, was it cold the first 16-20 kms. I thought my headset was wonky but it was my arms that were shaking so much. (It didn’t help that most of the first 10-15 kms are in shade) Then it started to warm up and the folks who had started out wearing, tights, overshoes, jackets and vests were stripping off like they were being paid. By mid ride it was in the 60s and I was just right. My ride’s end it was low 70s. I finished looking fantastic without the appearance of a cycling Quasimodo.

    BTW in the lead pic, Kelly is wearing knee warmers. The pic was taken on St. Mary’s Hill in Dublin during the Tour of Ireland. It was lashing down. In other pics of the same ride, the definition on Kelly’s legs is a sight to behold.

  8. @TheVid

    @Haldy

    @frank

    @teleguy57

    I wear LS myself quite a bit as well; the point is to only do that when you’re certain you won’t need to take the sleeves off. A great example was the Whidbey Cogal where we started in cool weather and finished in bare arms and legs. An LS jersey would have been a pain in the ass. (Although we had a team car, and @Haldy rode the whole day in long sleeves, full leggings, and overshoes WTF.

    You just don’t like my shoe covers because one is pink and one is blue. Not to mention the fact that you were an ungrateful bastard and didn’t wear the orange shoe covers I made the special effort to get hold of in time for the cogal, and you still have my scissors! I would also point out that I had to split off early to ride back down the Island and catch a ferry..thereby not having the support of said team car for the final 30 miles, and I was quite grateful for the layers the last 10 miles or so, it was cloudy and cold at the southern end of the island when I was back down there. Having done the solo run from my house to the top of Stevens Pass the week before..I was used to having to carry everything I started out with.

    Every time I looked over at you fully covered up on the cogal, it was enough to keep me warm. I would have overheated and shrivelled up under all that gear on that ride. I actually liked the one pink/one blue combination. Made me think of the old Lampre kit.

    I had a short sleeve base layer on under my LS jersey, and I did peel off my gloves…so..I wasn’t running all that hot. Maybe on a couple of climbs I opened up the vest and jersey a bit, but never overheated during the ride.

  9. I went out and bought a couple of ridiculously expensive bits of kit.

    1. Assos Early Winter S7 Base Layer.

    2. Assos Long Sleeve S7 Intermediate Jersey with wind proof front panels.

    There’s some sort of saying in cycling about it taking 5 years to “…get your legs”. Well, I think it takes just about as long for one to figure out that it’s not lunacy to spend upwards of $300 on a jersey that you’ll only wear in spring and fall. And we’re not talking about simply biting the bullet and pulling the trigger but actually celebrating your genius in discovering the value of these wonderful layers that can keep you comfortable and fast as the temperatures fall.

  10. @chuckp

    @Ron

    Also, let’s not forget the cold/hot situation and where the hell you grew up. Now that I live in the southern U.S. I’m routinely annoyed with what people consider too cold to do anything out-of-doors. If you grew up in a place with an actual winter and four seasons, you just deal with shite weather. If you grew up in a sunny place, unless it is 25* and brilliant, you fucking complain.

    Another factor is your ancestry/ethnic heritage. Those of you with Nordic genes are probably going to tolerate cold weather a lot better than those of with tropical/island (in my case, my parents were from the Philippines) genes.

    yup, the downside comes if you take those Nordic genes & relocate them to a place like Oz…weeks of 40 degree heat during summer are not so much fun.

  11. “Keep them knees toasty above all.” Eddy Bosberg. “If your peds are cold, put a casquette on.” le maman. ” Gloves are for sissies.” Mssr. Hardman.

  12. @frank

    @antihero

    Here in Tennessee, the weather changes rapidly through the day – it’s not unusual for the temp to start below freezing and then climb into the mid-twenties Celsius by midday, so if you’re out on a long ride layer storage becomes an issue.

    Having a Jersey with adequate storage is essential – nothing is worse that rolling along with a jumbled mess of warmers, gilet, and whatnot flailing about from the top of one’s jersey pockets.

    Did any of you read the bullet about the gilet? It doesn’t go in your pockets. Fold it flat and slip it between the jersey and bibs. It won’t be bulky and doesn’t take up space in the pockets.

    @chuckp

    Correct.

    @frank, you expect people to read this stuff ? Im here for the pictures.

  13. @TheVid

    @RobSandy

    I don’t get the trend towards ever widening handlebars. Way back in the 90s when MTB was all I ever did, the bars I had were just right for the single track through the forests of BC. Just the thought of riding through those same trails with the current ‘plus’ sized bars gives me the heebie jeebies.

    Well, we thought that back in the 90s. We’d buy a 680mm bar, cut it down and then add bar ends… not sure how the fuck we ever rode like that.

    Wide bars are the only way to go, 730mm is a minimum these days. I run 775s. More control, and never a problem with trees… if you’re hitting trees at that width, you’d have to be going pretty bloody slow anyway to even get through them.

  14. @Ron

    @frank

    @chuckp

    If you’re going to get it wrong, better to be too warm and un-layer than not have enough and be cold. At least for me, when it’s cold I can never be too warm. I can, however, be too f**kin’ cold.

    I agree so long as I’m not riding hard. I run a bit hot anyway, and sweat a lot, so if I’m overdressed, there is no way I’ll be able to drink against the water loss and I’ll be totally fucked. If you’re coldish, you can just ride harder, but if you’re too cold you’ll be just as fucked. You really do want to get it right.

    Also, let’s not forget the cold/hot situation and where the hell you grew up. Now that I live in the southern U.S. I’m routinely annoyed with what people consider too cold to do anything out-of-doors. If you grew up in a place with an actual winter and four seasons, you just deal with shite weather. If you grew up in a sunny place, unless it is 25* and brilliant, you fucking complain.

    My first “winter” down here in the deep south was one of no jackets and you gotta be kidding me when folks complained and schools were shut for even slightest hint of freezing weather. It didn’t take long for me to acclimatize however and now… I complain along with everyone else unless blue skies and sunshine! Hot weather? Sit down and take a breather. Maybe have a sweet tea. Cold? Find shelter or die. Cold is no fun.

    The beautiful thing about living in the deep south US is that at Christmas, kids can ride their new bikes outside! And not in the kitchen like up north. Cheers.

  15. It is all about wool, and proper layer for me. I ride down to the mid teens, and layered right, it works. Leg warmers are great until 30 for me, then I wear Rapha deep winter tights over pro team bibs. Again, wool.

  16. I did buy 2 $300-ish Giordana Windstopper jackets, to deal with Winters in Canberra. One of the nice things about wearing regular knicks in such a f*#king cold winter, is if you wear regular knicks with leg warmers is getting a freezing cold arse and the scottish suntan in the area between jacket and warmers – absolutely ridiculous. And so now I’ve bought winter bib shorts. You read that right.

  17. @chuckp

    TBH I usually wear a cap under the helmet so probably wouldn’t use it much anyway.

    I actually trialled a Helium which had the shell on last year at a sportive,it did help with the odd rain shower but it got a bit too hot by the end.

  18. Today’s ride. Onioned/layered pretty much “just right.” I’m wearing knee warmers but you can’t see them in the pic. Also, I rode with a gilet/wind vest but took it off for this pic. Lombardia in Reston VA.

  19. @wiscot

    The pic was taken on St. Mary’s Hill in Dublin during the Tour of Ireland.

    I think you mean Patrick’s hill in Cork?

  20. @fenlander

    It’s still an EMPS.

  21. @Matt

    @Chipomarc

    This guys don’t seem to be in agreement on the kit needed for the ride.

    Yeah, but they’re also riding with only half a fork.

    Brilliant!

    @chuckp

    @Ron

    Also, let’s not forget the cold/hot situation and where the hell you grew up. Now that I live in the southern U.S. I’m routinely annoyed with what people consider too cold to do anything out-of-doors. If you grew up in a place with an actual winter and four seasons, you just deal with shite weather. If you grew up in a sunny place, unless it is 25* and brilliant, you fucking complain.

    Another factor is your ancestry/ethnic heritage. Those of you with Nordic genes are probably going to tolerate cold weather a lot better than those of with tropical/island (in my case, my parents were from the Philippines) genes.

    There is probably a certain truth to it, but it’s easier to just call you all sissies.

  22. @Haldy

    @frank

    @teleguy57

    I wear LS myself quite a bit as well; the point is to only do that when you’re certain you won’t need to take the sleeves off. A great example was the Whidbey Cogal where we started in cool weather and finished in bare arms and legs. An LS jersey would have been a pain in the ass. (Although we had a team car, and @Haldy rode the whole day in long sleeves, full leggings, and overshoes WTF.

    You just don’t like my shoe covers because one is pink and one is blue. Not to mention the fact that you were an ungrateful bastard and didn’t wear the orange shoe covers I made the special effort to get hold of in time for the cogal, and you still have my scissors! I would also point out that I had to split off early to ride back down the Island and catch a ferry..thereby not having the support of said team car for the final 30 miles, and I was quite grateful for the layers the last 10 miles or so, it was cloudy and cold at the southern end of the island when I was back down there. Having done the solo run from my house to the top of Stevens Pass the week before..I was used to having to carry everything I started out with.

    Oh, I can handle it, and while I didn’t ride the overshoes that day, I’ve been rocking them regularly. They look the tits with black socks.

    @litvi

    @wiscot

    @Matt

    @Chipomarc

    This guys don’t seem to be in agreement on the kit needed for the ride.

    Yeah, but they’re also riding with only half a fork.

    I think that’s why they’ve stopped. “Fuck me, mateys, anyone seen my right fork?”

    I like the guy in the center. “Hold the fuck on guys… Before we start, Jimmy needs a lesson in dressin.”

    I’m boggled by the guy with the chin warmer.

  23. @RobSandy

    @Matt

    @chuckp

    Perhaps the other fork leg was crushed and melted down to produce the necessary material for the 900mm bars the far left rider is using.

    One of my mates rides off road with bars that wide. It fucking freaks me out. Looks like he’s riding his bike with a broom.

    You don’t want to be riding too much technical single track with bars like that. Holy hell.

  24. I’m wondering, how many of you ever took their leg-warmers off during a ride?

  25. @bea

    I’m wondering, how many of you ever took their leg-warmers off during a ride?

    I’ve taken my Kneekers off because they annoy me so much.

  26. @frank

    @RobSandy

    @Matt

    @chuckp

    Perhaps the other fork leg was crushed and melted down to produce the necessary material for the 900mm bars the far left rider is using.

    One of my mates rides off road with bars that wide. It fucking freaks me out. Looks like he’s riding his bike with a broom.

    You don’t want to be riding too much technical single track with bars like that. Holy hell.

    Is this an appropriate time to initiate a road bike bar width discussion? I’ve got 44’s on mine, and feel like they get wider every time I ride. I’m getting some 42cm wide 3T Rotundos for Christmas, so will be down-widthing as well as going to a classic bend.

    Any thoughts from the class?

  27. @bea

    Who hasn’t?

  28. @DavyMuur

    @wiscot

    The pic was taken on St. Mary’s Hill in Dublin during the Tour of Ireland.

    I think you mean Patrick’s hill in Cork?

    Errr . . . sure, the one in Cork! I get them confused, cough, cough.

  29. @wiscot

    @DavyMuur

    @wiscot

    The pic was taken on St. Mary’s Hill in Dublin during the Tour of Ireland.

    I think you mean Patrick’s hill in Cork?

    Errr . . . sure, the one in Cork! I get them confused, cough, cough.

    Hehe, yeah, no worries! I confuse them myself sometimes too. But seriously though, Dublin is pretty flat. I suspect it was in fact (St.)Patrick’s Hill in Cork, which was a staple feature of the Nissan Classic (formerly Tour of Ireland).

  30. @RobSandy

    @frank

    @RobSandy

    @Matt

    @chuckp

    Perhaps the other fork leg was crushed and melted down to produce the necessary material for the 900mm bars the far left rider is using.

    One of my mates rides off road with bars that wide. It fucking freaks me out. Looks like he’s riding his bike with a broom.

    You don’t want to be riding too much technical single track with bars like that. Holy hell.

    Is this an appropriate time to initiate a road bike bar width discussion? I’ve got 44’s on mine, and feel like they get wider every time I ride. I’m getting some 42cm wide 3T Rotundos for Christmas, so will be down-widthing as well as going to a classic bend.

    Any thoughts from the class?

    I have 44’s and always think that 42cm would be slightly too narrow, since I chose parents that gave me large shoulders (which fucks up my aerodynamics, thanks mom and dad). But then I think about Adam Hansen, who is several centimeters taller than me and rides 38’s. So fuck.

  31. @RobSandy

    But regarding the bar shape, I love big round drops. There are many more positions for your hands, etc. but the most important element is that they look sexy. I believe @Frank has waxed poetic about his Rotundos in the past, no?

  32. @Matt

    I have 44’s and always think that 42cm would be slightly too narrow, since I chose parents that gave me large shoulders (which fucks up my aerodynamics, thanks mom and dad). But then I think about Adam Hansen, who is several centimeters taller than me and rides 38’s. So fuck.

    I also have broad shoulders. But the only solution I can see to finding 44s too wide is to at least try 42s.

    My wife has 38s on her Bianchi -they seem comically narrow to me.

    I did take the top on 3T Rotundos from one of Frank’s articles; I’d assumed that anything Frank liked would be way out of my budget but I found a good deal on the Rotundos for my Dad to buy me. Worth a try, anyway. Also, means I can switch to white bar tape so my bike goes faster.

  33. @RobSandy

    @frank

    @RobSandy

    @Matt

    @chuckp

    Perhaps the other fork leg was crushed and melted down to produce the necessary material for the 900mm bars the far left rider is using.

    One of my mates rides off road with bars that wide. It fucking freaks me out. Looks like he’s riding his bike with a broom.

    You don’t want to be riding too much technical single track with bars like that. Holy hell.

    Is this an appropriate time to initiate a road bike bar width discussion? I’ve got 44’s on mine, and feel like they get wider every time I ride. I’m getting some 42cm wide 3T Rotundos for Christmas, so will be down-widthing as well as going to a classic bend.

    Any thoughts from the class?

    The rule of thumb is to go the width of your shoulders, which is fine, but I think it’s really down to preference. Narrow is more aero, but wider is probably better for breathing, so don’t just pick one, experiment. I rode a 42cm bar for a while because The Prophet liked narrow bars but it always felt a little narrow. Especially when climbing on the tops I find my hands to be about as far apart as they will go, so that tells me that wider is more natural for me.

    For some reason my 44cm alu Rotundos are slightly narrower than my 44cm carbon ones – by like a cm, making the carbons more like 45’s, but I do like them nice and wide like that; when I ride the rain bike I do notice the bars feel a tad narrow, but only for the first few minutes, and only if I just rode the #1 immediately before. Also, I have the alu ones on the Graveur and the position is off by enough that I never notice the bars being narrow, even though they’re the same as the ones on the Nine Bike.

  34. @DavyMuur

    @wiscot

    @DavyMuur

    @wiscot

    The pic was taken on St. Mary’s Hill in Dublin during the Tour of Ireland.

    I think you mean Patrick’s hill in Cork?

    Errr . . . sure, the one in Cork! I get them confused, cough, cough.

    Hehe, yeah, no worries! I confuse them myself sometimes too. But seriously though, Dublin is pretty flat. I suspect it was in fact (St.)Patrick’s Hill in Cork, which was a staple feature of the Nissan Classic (formerly Tour of Ireland).

    I believe you are correct. I was actually going to caption it as such but wasn’t sure enough to take the gamble.

    Man, I loved that PDM kit.

  35. @Matt

    @RobSandy

    But regarding the bar shape, I love big round drops. There are many more positions for your hands, etc. but the most important element is that they look sexy. I believe @Frank has waxed poetic about his Rotundos in the past, no?

    Loves me my rotundos, but would try the fiziks in an instant; they appear to have a nice deep drop to them which would rule.

    Bar shape, there’s another one you should fool about with and just pick something you like; there’s no right or wrong there.

  36. @RobSandy

    @Matt

    I have 44’s and always think that 42cm would be slightly too narrow, since I chose parents that gave me large shoulders (which fucks up my aerodynamics, thanks mom and dad). But then I think about Adam Hansen, who is several centimeters taller than me and rides 38’s. So fuck.

    I also have broad shoulders. But the only solution I can see to finding 44s too wide is to at least try 42s.

    My wife has 38s on her Bianchi -they seem comically narrow to me.

    I did take the top on 3T Rotundos from one of Frank’s articles; I’d assumed that anything Frank liked would be way out of my budget but I found a good deal on the Rotundos for my Dad to buy me. Worth a try, anyway. Also, means I can switch to white bar tape so my bike goes faster.

    Bril!

    Also note that not all 44’s are treated equally; make sure you know how the vendor is measuring them (c-c or o-o) so you don’t bugger yourself.

  37. @frank

    I believe you are correct. I was actually going to caption it as such but wasn’t sure enough to take the gamble.

    Man, I loved that PDM kit.

    Local knowledge!

    Yerp, the PDM kit was something to behold alright. Almost as nice as the Concorde machines they rode.

  38. @minion

    I did buy 2 $300-ish Giordana Windstopper jackets, to deal with Winters in Canberra. One of the nice things about wearing regular knicks in such a f*#king cold winter, is if you wear regular knicks with leg warmers is getting a freezing cold arse and the scottish suntan in the area between jacket and warmers – absolutely ridiculous. And so now I’ve bought winter bib shorts. You read that right.

    fuck me you kiwis are soft.

  39. @frank

    Yeah, but they’re also riding with only half a fork.

    I think that’s why they’ve stopped. “Fuck me, mateys, anyone seen my right fork?”

    I like the guy in the center. “Hold the fuck on guys… Before we start, Jimmy needs a lesson in dressin.”

    I’m boggled by the guy with the chin warmer.

    You can get em on etsy.

    Personally I prefer the darker tones, because the Belgian Toothpaste stands out better on them.

  40. @frank

    @RobSandy

    @Matt

    I have 44’s and always think that 42cm would be slightly too narrow, since I chose parents that gave me large shoulders (which fucks up my aerodynamics, thanks mom and dad). But then I think about Adam Hansen, who is several centimeters taller than me and rides 38’s. So fuck.

    I also have broad shoulders. But the only solution I can see to finding 44s too wide is to at least try 42s.

    My wife has 38s on her Bianchi -they seem comically narrow to me.

    I did take the top on 3T Rotundos from one of Frank’s articles; I’d assumed that anything Frank liked would be way out of my budget but I found a good deal on the Rotundos for my Dad to buy me. Worth a try, anyway. Also, means I can switch to white bar tape so my bike goes faster.

    Bril!

    Also note that not all 44’s are treated equally; make sure you know how the vendor is measuring them (c-c or o-o) so you don’t bugger yourself.

    I’ve got 38s on the track bike and they are ideal. I’m running 42s on my road bikes, but they feel too wide and IMHO 40s are the best width all round.

    When 3t were developing their Scatto bars, they did a literature review and found that the assembly of bone in the shoulder, the coracoid process – the actual points of leverage – are one of the constants of human anatomy, and in males are very close to 40cm. So they only made 2 sizes, 37 for females and 39 for males. Admittedly they are sprint bars but the principles hold true – there is no reason to match your bar width to what you think your shoulder width is, bikes handle fine with narrower bars, and you are more aero. Breathing is part of set up as well, you don’t need width to lift your rib cage up and open – that’s a side effect of slam that stem doofuses.

    Of course this assumes 3t were right.

    @Mikael Liddy

    @minion

    I did buy 2 $300-ish Giordana Windstopper jackets, to deal with Winters in Canberra. One of the nice things about wearing regular knicks in such a f*#king cold winter, is if you wear regular knicks with leg warmers is getting a freezing cold arse and the scottish suntan in the area between jacket and warmers – absolutely ridiculous. And so now I’ve bought winter bib shorts. You read that right.

    fuck me you kiwis are soft.

    There aren’t any actual aussies living in Canberra so none of you would know. The inhabitants are either public servants or lizard people, neither of which are bogan enough for the rest of the country.

  41. Not sure how this became a bar discussion, but … Love my 3T Ergonova Pros. 42cm but that’s measured at the bar ends which are flared out a little. So more like 40cm at the hoods. If I ever find a good deal on a used Ergonova Team bar, want to try just to see if/how carbon makes a difference.

  42. @minion

    @frank

    @RobSandy

    @Matt

    I have 44’s and always think that 42cm would be slightly too narrow, since I chose parents that gave me large shoulders (which fucks up my aerodynamics, thanks mom and dad). But then I think about Adam Hansen, who is several centimeters taller than me and rides 38’s. So fuck.

    I also have broad shoulders. But the only solution I can see to finding 44s too wide is to at least try 42s.

    My wife has 38s on her Bianchi -they seem comically narrow to me.

    I did take the top on 3T Rotundos from one of Frank’s articles; I’d assumed that anything Frank liked would be way out of my budget but I found a good deal on the Rotundos for my Dad to buy me. Worth a try, anyway. Also, means I can switch to white bar tape so my bike goes faster.

    Bril!

    Also note that not all 44’s are treated equally; make sure you know how the vendor is measuring them (c-c or o-o) so you don’t bugger yourself.

    I’ve got 38s on the track bike and they are ideal. I’m running 42s on my road bikes, but they feel too wide and IMHO 40s are the best width all round.

    When 3t were developing their Scatto bars, they did a literature review and found that the assembly of bone in the shoulder, the coracoid process – the actual points of leverage – are one of the constants of human anatomy, and in males are very close to 40cm. So they only made 2 sizes, 37 for females and 39 for males. Admittedly they are sprint bars but the principles hold true – there is no reason to match your bar width to what you think your shoulder width is, bikes handle fine with narrower bars, and you are more aero. Breathing is part of set up as well, you don’t need width to lift your rib cage up and open – that’s a side effect of slam that stem doofuses.

    Of course this assumes 3t were right.

    Interesting. I’d say it fails the basic gut check because reaching forward and bringing my arms together and then spreading them apart definitely changes my ability to take a deep breath while sitting at my desk. Also, I’m assuming you’re taking the piss saying it was a literary review; hopefully they conducted some studies? Like even just the one I did?

    Strong work on sneaking in a slam that stem slam.

    @Mikael Liddy

    @minion

    I did buy 2 $300-ish Giordana Windstopper jackets, to deal with Winters in Canberra. One of the nice things about wearing regular knicks in such a f*#king cold winter, is if you wear regular knicks with leg warmers is getting a freezing cold arse and the scottish suntan in the area between jacket and warmers – absolutely ridiculous. And so now I’ve bought winter bib shorts. You read that right.

    fuck me you kiwis are soft.

    There aren’t any actual aussies living in Canberra so none of you would know. The inhabitants are either public servants or lizard people, neither of which are bogan enough for the rest of the country.

    Canberra’s city planning committee.

    I was chatting with an Aussie the other day at the pub about Tazmania. I had no idea Aussies made so much fun of those folks. The scar on the shoulder from where Tazmanian mother’s cut off their children’s second head? Hillarious.

  43. @frank

    @minion

    @frank

    @RobSandy

    @Matt

    I have 44’s and always think that 42cm would be slightly too narrow, since I chose parents that gave me large shoulders (which fucks up my aerodynamics, thanks mom and dad). But then I think about Adam Hansen, who is several centimeters taller than me and rides 38’s. So fuck.

    I also have broad shoulders. But the only solution I can see to finding 44s too wide is to at least try 42s.

    My wife has 38s on her Bianchi -they seem comically narrow to me.

    I did take the top on 3T Rotundos from one of Frank’s articles; I’d assumed that anything Frank liked would be way out of my budget but I found a good deal on the Rotundos for my Dad to buy me. Worth a try, anyway. Also, means I can switch to white bar tape so my bike goes faster.

    Bril!

    Also note that not all 44’s are treated equally; make sure you know how the vendor is measuring them (c-c or o-o) so you don’t bugger yourself.

    I’ve got 38s on the track bike and they are ideal. I’m running 42s on my road bikes, but they feel too wide and IMHO 40s are the best width all round.

    When 3t were developing their Scatto bars, they did a literature review and found that the assembly of bone in the shoulder, the coracoid process – the actual points of leverage – are one of the constants of human anatomy, and in males are very close to 40cm. So they only made 2 sizes, 37 for females and 39 for males. Admittedly they are sprint bars but the principles hold true – there is no reason to match your bar width to what you think your shoulder width is, bikes handle fine with narrower bars, and you are more aero. Breathing is part of set up as well, you don’t need width to lift your rib cage up and open – that’s a side effect of slam that stem doofuses.

    Of course this assumes 3t were right.

    Interesting. I’d say it fails the basic gut check because reaching forward and bringing my arms together and then spreading them apart definitely changes my ability to take a deep breath while sitting at my desk. Also, I’m assuming you’re taking the piss saying it was a literary review; hopefully they conducted some studies? Like even just the one I did?

    Strong work on sneaking in a slam that stem slam.

    Well I was feeling saucy and went ahead and ordered the 42’s. I’ll let you know post-Christmas if I like em. My dad said he thought they’d sent him an empty box when the bars arrived at his house.

  44. @frank

    well they’re basically half way to New Zealand, so are treated with about half as much contempt as we reserve for Minion & his fellow kiwis.

    None of which is in any way motivated by jealousy at the amazing landscape down there…

  45. @frank

    @minion

    @frank

    @RobSandy

    @Matt

    I have 44’s and always think that 42cm would be slightly too narrow, since I chose parents that gave me large shoulders (which fucks up my aerodynamics, thanks mom and dad). But then I think about Adam Hansen, who is several centimeters taller than me and rides 38’s. So fuck.

    I also have broad shoulders. But the only solution I can see to finding 44s too wide is to at least try 42s.

    My wife has 38s on her Bianchi -they seem comically narrow to me.

    I did take the top on 3T Rotundos from one of Frank’s articles; I’d assumed that anything Frank liked would be way out of my budget but I found a good deal on the Rotundos for my Dad to buy me. Worth a try, anyway. Also, means I can switch to white bar tape so my bike goes faster.

    Bril!

    Also note that not all 44’s are treated equally; make sure you know how the vendor is measuring them (c-c or o-o) so you don’t bugger yourself.

    I’ve got 38s on the track bike and they are ideal. I’m running 42s on my road bikes, but they feel too wide and IMHO 40s are the best width all round.

    When 3t were developing their Scatto bars, they did a literature review and found that the assembly of bone in the shoulder, the coracoid process – the actual points of leverage – are one of the constants of human anatomy, and in males are very close to 40cm. So they only made 2 sizes, 37 for females and 39 for males. Admittedly they are sprint bars but the principles hold true – there is no reason to match your bar width to what you think your shoulder width is, bikes handle fine with narrower bars, and you are more aero. Breathing is part of set up as well, you don’t need width to lift your rib cage up and open – that’s a side effect of slam that stem doofuses.

    Of course this assumes 3t were right.

    Interesting. I’d say it fails the basic gut check because reaching forward and bringing my arms together and then spreading them apart definitely changes my ability to take a deep breath while sitting at my desk. Also, I’m assuming you’re taking the piss saying it was a literary review; hopefully they conducted some studies? Like even just the one I did?

    Strong work on sneaking in a slam that stem slam.

    @Mikael Liddy

    @minion

    I did buy 2 $300-ish Giordana Windstopper jackets, to deal with Winters in Canberra. One of the nice things about wearing regular knicks in such a f*#king cold winter, is if you wear regular knicks with leg warmers is getting a freezing cold arse and the scottish suntan in the area between jacket and warmers – absolutely ridiculous. And so now I’ve bought winter bib shorts. You read that right.

    fuck me you kiwis are soft.

    There aren’t any actual aussies living in Canberra so none of you would know. The inhabitants are either public servants or lizard people, neither of which are bogan enough for the rest of the country.

    Canberra’s city planning committee.

    I was chatting with an Aussie the other day at the pub about Tazmania. I had no idea Aussies made so much fun of those folks. The scar on the shoulder from where Tazmanian mother’s cut off their children’s second head? Hillarious.

    My wife’s a Tasmanian, so from the three best islands in the southern hemisphere, Fuck you.

    Winky emoticon

  46. @frank

    Bah thought I might have got away with calling it a tool-roll,,,

    It might be banished anyway as it’s managed to unclip itself three times twice sending the Lezyne co2 inflater bouncing up the road(still works though).

    Might just get a a toe-strap and fix a couple of tubes under the saddle with that.

  47. @minion

    I was chatting with an Aussie the other day at the pub about Tazmania. I had no idea Aussies made so much fun of those folks. The scar on the shoulder from where Tazmanian mother’s cut off their children’s second head? Hillarious.

    My wife’s a Tasmanian, so from the three best islands in the southern hemisphere, Fuck you.

    Winky emoticon

    As a Tasmanian I can tell you my favourite Tasmanian joke.

    Dave comes home and excitedly tells Dad and Mom:
    “Dad!, Mum!, I’ve got some great news. I’ve met this girl and she’s a beauty.
    She can cook, she can chop wood, she can plow, she’s got most of her teeth.
    I’m in love and we want to get married.”

    Dad and Mum say how wonderful that is.

    “But Dad, Mum, there’s one problem. She’s a virgin.”

    Dad’s reply
    “Well if she’s not good enough for her own family, she’s not good enough for ours.”

  48. @RobSandy

    @bea

    I’m wondering, how many of you ever took their leg-warmers off during a ride?

    I’ve taken my Kneekers off because they annoy me so much.

    I’ve never taken leg warmers off, if it’s cold enough to need them they stay on, besides I am riding too hard to stop.

  49. @Lister

    @RobSandy

    @bea

    I’m wondering, how many of you ever took their leg-warmers off during a ride?

    I’ve taken my Kneekers off because they annoy me so much.

    I’ve never taken leg warmers off, if it’s cold enough to need them they stay on, besides I am riding too hard to stop.

    This. I’ve never taken leg warmers, knee warmers or a gilet off during a ride. Maybe a cap, but that’s it.

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