Guest Article: Jeff in PetroMetro’s Look 595

Guest Article: Jeff in PetroMetro’s Look 595

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Not only do most of us have a tale of our Cycling Sensei, but we also generally have a story for how we came into our current Bike Number 1. Those of us who were online last week probably noticed Jeff’s manic posts regarding a Look that he spotted at a big-box retailer, for a price that should have him constantly looking over his shoulder for fear of either the authorities or other Velominati who are plotting to steal it.

Look holds a special place in cycling history. Hinault, Lemond, Jalabert, and Hushovd have all won upon these machines while Look was experimenting with building bicycles out of composites. Looking over the frame Jeff now owns, it is a great pleasure to see that, while it obviously showcases the state of modern bicycle technology, it’s roots are still on plain view. With lugs so sexy they should be called luggs, this machine represents the fusion of cycling technology with cycling tradition. Beautiful.

Jeff’s article detailing his experience is so long I considered splitting it into several articles, but I figured everyone could use a good excuse to have a leisurely drink and a long read. So, grab a beer, and settle in.

Yours in cycling,

Frank

Many Velominati know some of the details regarding my very recent acquisition of a Look 595. I’ve shared a bit of the intrigue at “Frank vs. The Volcano”.

Before I go on, I must thank all of you for your kind words of encouragement. Velominati, you are my true Brothers of The Cog. I appreciate all of you and hope to meet you guys someday soon.

Steampunk, you have my condolences for purchasing non-refundable round-trip airfare to Houston. I’m sorry, but the well is dry. I got the last one. However, you’re still welcome here in the PetroMetro. As for me, I want a one-way ticket out.

Marcus, how fucking cool are we? Congrats. Is the 595 the new Velominati team issue? Maybe?

Our Excelsis Velominatus (Frank) wanted more than just a post from me. And not just a picture of Julian Dean’s resplendent 595, either. Did I mention I’m a full-on fanboy of Julian Dean now? Two straight years of layin’ down the V on all the other Kiwis. I liked his kit. Way better kit than the standard-issue argyle. Sorry, JV. That shit was ugly.

And yes, Nate, I need the Credit Agricole DECALS, not stickers–forgive me in all my excitement.

No, I’m not wearing a CA kit””ever. I wear black shorts. Colored panels on the outside only. Rule #14 supersedes Rule #17 because, well, Rule #14 comes before Rule #17. And that works for me.

Here are the sordid details. The emotional highs, the crushing lows, a pic, and the ride review. So, pour yourself a glass or four of Chianti Superiore 2007 from Castello di Monastero, break out the Chimay red label, or make an espresso. I give you my humble prose.

Chapter 1: A Chance Encounter

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times…

Right. Too cliché.

My eight-year-old daughter and I went to Memorial City Mall to see “Yogi Bear in 3D”. After the movie, we walked downstairs to a restaurant for dinner. Since both her birthday and our semi-annual camping trip were coming up, I suggested we take a quick detour into Sun & Ski Sports to look at a 24-inch mountain bike for her. (We take our bikes to camp, but she’s outgrown her current ride.) She picked out the one she wanted. Like any good father, I told her she wouldn’t get it anytime soon and I’d sell her into indentured servitude if she uttered one more word about it.

I went back the next day and bought it. Hee hee. By the way, my wife and I will surprise our daughter with her new bike in two weeks.

While at the store to make the purchase, I looked around the bike section with a little more leisure. There were lots of mid-range road and mountain bikes. Nothing awesome. And nothing marked down too much. Meh.

And then””I found a lonely stand with three very top-end steeds: a white 2007 Look 595; a carbon grey 2008 Look 585 Ultra; and some opulent time trial machine to which I paid little attention because I’m not a tri-wanker (Rule 42) and I’m not riding the State Time Trial Championships any time soon.

The 595 was originally priced at $7400″”about right for full Dura Ace back in ’07. Its price was cut to $3200. Excellent, but still too much for this Velominatus Budgetatus. The 585 Ultra, also dressed in full Dura Ace, was originally $6900, reduced to $2500.

I soiled myself.

I went to the restroom, cleaned up, returned to the sales floor, and quietly inquired about the Looks. The young salesman who sold me my daughter’s bike said, “Yeah, they’ve been here for two or three years. I’m pretty sure I can knock 10% off the sale price of the cheaper one. Want me to take it down?”

Perceptive. And persuasive. He’ll go far.

I am nothing if not casually deliberate. Sometimes I’m deliberately casual. Regardless, I calmly said, “Sure.”

He handed me the 585 Ultra. I touched it. I caressed the 585’s carbon top tube. I ogled the Dura Ace everywhere on the frame (and I’m a Campagnolo guy). I picked it up. It made my Cervelo Soloist aluminum feel like a refrigerator. The 585 was electrifying. I had wicked carbone.

I think I said something about starting a new business and having a very tight budget and ooh this is amazing and how can you sell this for $2250 and I’m not worthy and my Mastercard…

…and then the room spun ’round and ’round.

When I came to, I told the salesman that I had to go, but that I would be back in a day or two.

“No rush. I’m sure it’ll still be here.”

Chapter 2: The Punishing Cost of Indecision

I spent the next two days reminding myself that I’d left behind my career in financial services, that I was committed to writing for a living which meant near-term poverty, and that I would have to rule my budget with iron-like discipline.

Then I ran the numbers. I could put it on my Mastercard at 9.9% APR and pay it off in two years at $111.55 per month. That included $100 for pedals and sales tax at 8.25%. I could sell everything I owned that I didn’t use. I could do without utilities and groceries and reasonable shelter. I could write enough to pay bills. And taxes. Oh, and still put aside savings. (I was a financial planner after all.)

I called at 9:58am on Monday. The store opened at 10am. A salesman named Trey answered.

“Hey, Trey. My name is Jeff. I saw the Look 585 Ultra a couple of days ago and wanted to make sure it was still there. I’ll be at the store in about 30 minutes to buy it. I’m really excited…”

“Sir, I don’t think we have it anymore. I think it sold.”

“Wha? Really. Wow. Okay. Hmmm.” I went numb. If I’d eaten breakfast, I’d have thrown it up. I reached for my blankie.

“Do you want me to call around and see if there is another one in another store?”

“YES, PLEASE, DAMMIT!!!!!! I mean yes, please.”

We hung up. Through my salty tears I asked, “Merckx, what am I gonna do?”

Trey called me back very quickly. “Nope. They’re all gone. But, you know, there’s the 595 here.”

“Yeah. But it’s out of my budget. I can’t do it.”

“Maybe my manager can discount the bike some more. I could give him a call. He’s not in today, but he’s good about calling us back.”

“Okay. Thanks. Bye.” I didn’t even wait for Trey to respond.

I’d blown it.

Then, I thought, “No, Jeff. Not this time. You are such a ‘Ready, Ready, Ready, Aim, Aim, Aim, Fire’ fucktard. Rule #5. HTFU. Grow a pair. Call Trey back. Ask for the biggest discount you can get and be ready to say YES.

You wanna climb Wannahockalugie next year? Wanna be a true Velominatus? Wanna shoot for a sub-4? Or are you gonna lie in bed and cry? My Merckx.”

Trey called back, much sooner than I expected. “My manager will sell the 595 for $3000.”

I uncurled from my fetal position, but hung on to my blankie.

I started to hedge. “Yeah. Ok. That’s really nice of him. That’s just super-duper. Yep. Ok. Well, can I call you back after I think about it?”

Chapter 3: Merckx, Have Mercy on My Soul

Suddenly startled, I dropped my blankie. There was Merckx, right in front of me, wearing a classic Molteni wool warm-up jacket with rainbow stripes on his cuffs and his collar. (Damn, I want a jacket like that, but without the rainbow stripes ’cause I’ve never won a world championship””Rule 16.) He looked at me. He squinted. He smirked. He looked disappointed, even a little disgusted. I couldn’t let him down, even if he was a figment of my overly developed imagination.

I blurted into the phone, “No. Wait. I’m not calling you back. And I’m not thinking about it. I’m saying yes. YES. YES!!! I want the 595! Today! I’ll be there in 30 minutes.”

“Sure. Ok. See you then.”

What the fuck did I do? Oh shit.

Merckx grinned at me. He nodded, almost imperceptibly. It was life affirming. I did the right thing. And then he vanished. I was hoping he’d leave that wool Molteni warm-up behind as a talisman, a gift from, well, Merckx. No such luck. I couldn’t wear it anyway””the rainbow stripes. But he gave me something better. He gave me strength””The V. I seized this chance. Thanks, Eddy. You really are the greatest.

Before I could stop myself again, I pulled my riding gear together, stuffed it in a race bag, and walked out the door. The credit cards were burning. (It was gonna take two cards now.)

Chapter 4: It’s Mine

To make a long-ass story merely long, the Wrench didn’t get in for about an hour after I paid for the bike. The Wrench’s name was Chris. He did the cutting.

I knew I’d spend quite a bit of time on the trainer in the store getting the fit right. That’s why I brought all my riding stuff. I even brought the cold weather gear so I could head outside for a few laps and then come back for some more tweaking.

The guys were great. It was a very laid back atmosphere. They were happy to have a customer that knew what to do. I was happy I could work with guys who weren’t condescending bittermen. It was a very good experience. And the price still floors me.

So. As for the ride quality–I’ve only been out for a 1.5 hour shakedown cruise. The seatpost is not your dad’s Campy Record 27.2. I had Chris cut the integrated seatpost just a little lower than perfect so I had some wiggle room. Look designed the seatpost so you can use spacers for up to a 40 millimeter adjustment. I will add about 5 mils of spacer for my ride tomorrow. Today it felt a little low.

I’ve used every hair of the 1.5 cm setback. As I go up, I will bring the saddle forward a bit.

I have the stem slammed. I left the steerer tube tall enough for two 0.5 cm spacers, just in case I want to raise the stem later. To be Rule #45 compliant, I’d have to move one spacer down, but I’d rather leave the stem slammed. (Can I get a ruling? I’m comfy with it right now.)

By the way, the carbon fiber spacers are so cool. Each says LOOK. I could make pretty awesome key fobs out of the ones I didn’t leave on the bike.

I’d like to say I have barbone, but I’m not there yet. These bars scream 2007. They’re carbon, they’re ergo, they’re narrower than I’m used to, and they have that flat oval top. I rotated them down just a smidge, and now the flat part isn’t “aero”. If I rotate them back up, the levers look out of compliance (Rule 46). It’s a manufactured non-compliance problem.

I’ve never ridden a bike this light. I took it to a crit course that’s close to where I live. I rode at an easy to moderate pace, making sure all was tight. I did one hot lap””well it was half of a hot lap. (I’ve got a lot of speed work ahead of me.) The acceleration is other worldly.

I entered a left-hander hot enough not to pedal through it. I had visions of sticking a pedal on Day One and breaking something carbon. The bike is lightning quick. Twitchy in a very good way. I could have pedaled through the corner as I didn’t have to lay it over as much as I thought I would. The rest of the corners were just like buttah.

I have a little bit of toe overlap. I’ll be mindful when I trackstand at a light.

I feel amazingly lucky. Broke but lucky.

Total damage: $3355.75. At 10% over two years, that’s $147.22 per month, or $3533.31 when all is said and done.

A-Merckx.

// Guest Article // The Bikes

  1. @Marcus
    I’ll second all that, and for myself will never go back. I use a specialized with the same concept and it really makes sense.

  2. @Marcus

    where else down there would you want to put pressure on?

    Really, Marcus? Has no one had the talk with you about “the birds and the bees”? Ok, there’s a mommy and a daddy. The daddy takes his…

    …nevermind. I’ll let Brett take this one.

  3. @Jeff in PetroMetro

    Hey Jeff, lets go back to last week. You took three days and 75 posts before you found the cojones to buy your bike. Based on this I would hazard a guess that you are singularly unqualified to give any advice regarding birds, bees or saddles!

  4. @Marcus
    Singularly guilty as charged.

    As for your saddle, I’m with you. I’d ride an SMP, but I don’t have the money, so I’m stuck riding the Selle San Marco Rever that came with mine. I just let everything go numb and then I don’t have to think about it anymore.

    Cojones? Who speaks Spanish in your neck of the woods?

  5. @Marcus
    Given who I bought the Sella from (it wasn’t Brett or any of his associates) it would not surprise me if I was sold one which doesn’t fit because they didn’t have any others in stock and saw the opportunity to make a sale. I was younger and naiver in those days, and had been scared into prompt action after my todger went completely numb during an extended wind trainer session. As a result of the todger numbing experience (never repeated and thankfully resulting in no lasting adverse effects) I am totally down with the concept of pudendal nerve-protecting slits, and (like Rob) ride a Specialized saddle which employs the same device but which has the added benefit of not hurting my arse like a double scoop upsized arse pain on national arse pain day. (Incidentally, the Sella is available for sale – together with the Dura Ace crank I removed when I switched to a compact (he said, hoping that it did not bring on another outbreak of compactosis in the community).)

  6. @G’phant
    There is a very scientific testing apparatus which can be used to test the width of one’s ischial tuberosities. It is called the arse-ometer and it goes something like this:
    1. Obtain two pieces of soft white sliced bread.
    2. Place the two pieces of bread together on a flat surface. Voila, you have created an arse-ometer.
    3. Sit on the arse-ometer.
    4. Stand up and check how far apart the deep indentations are on the arse-ometer.
    5. Use this distance as a guide as to which selle smp to buy.
    6. Do not eat the arse-omter after use.

  7. All this talk of arses, birds, bees, etc. and not one Carbone joke about Marcus’s wheelset?

  8. Marcus:
    @G’phant
    There is a very scientific testing apparatus which can be used to test the width of one’s ischial tuberosities. It is called the arse-ometer and it goes something like this:
    1. Obtain two pieces of soft white sliced bread.
    2. Place the two pieces of bread together on a flat surface. Voila, you have created an arse-ometer.
    3. Sit on the arse-ometer.
    4. Stand up and check how far apart the deep indentations are on the arse-ometer.
    5. Use this distance as a guide as to which selle smp to buy.
    6. Do not eat the arse-omter after use.

    Does this work with grain bread, as we only buy this type in our household? It may not show the line definition as clearly as one would hope? Second concern may be that I’ll be picking grains, seeds & nuts out of my bits though. Let me think this through a bit more…….

    Plus side may be that I’m able to make a sandwich later for my pain in the arse next door neighbour as a friendly gesture. Pros & cons can make for difficult decisions.

  9. @Marcus
    I too think the Look stem is the nicer of the two, but if it’s too long what’s a Velominatus to do. My big fat k-force stem is the cat’s ass, I like the look of a phatty stem. As for the saddle, yes, those things are ugly but if it floats yer choad have at it. I’ve never ridden one of those but they have intrigued me. I can’t remember, did you say you liked the bars? I rode k-wings for two years on number 1 and switched to Rotundos (put the k-wings on my cx bike). Turns out I didn’t like them as much as i thought. Nice bike though. You and JiPM have this place all a-flutter with Looks.

  10. @Jeff in PetroMetro
    Hey Jeff – what did your girl think of the bike?

    Also, spotted this gem at Branford Bike who is rebuilding my new eBay Ergo shifters for my steel rebuild.

  11. @frank
    The daughter thinks it’s super cool and is proud of her dad for riding A LOT again.

    That looks like it might be a tall frame. Can’t really tell from that angle. Might you desire a LOOK with Luggs? If so, take a gander at the frame pre-cutting. LOOK has an amazingly long seatpost to start with. Might be just the thing for our Excelsis Velominatus. And French is so much closer to Latin.

  12. Wow! This was the first article that I read when I discovered this site – in the same week that this beauty of a frame arrived at my front door in a box from eBay.

    After applying copious amounts of grease & carbon paste in the right places, this bike is a silent magic carpet ride which has taken me to more top five finishes this season than any other.

  13. @justintv
    Sorry for the late comment. Just saw it as I’m catching up on some Velominati reading.

    Congratulations! This place is full of hot French carbon. Well done.

  14. How’d I miss your story before Jeff? Pretty freakin’ awesome, huh? I meticulously cleaned my 586 last night and I can’t believe how freaking sweet LOOK bikes are. My desire for a LOOK was mostly driven by the uniqueness of owning something that very few people in the local peloton have but now that I actually own one… It’s amazing.

    I liked the part in your story about getting set up on the bike at the LBS. After visiting Contender Bikes in SLC last weekend and getting top notch service even though I just bought a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff and reading your article I missed out on that aspect of the “dream” with my internet purchase.

  15. A local bike shop here in Auckland is selling a Look 595 on behalf of one of their customers. Full Chorus 10 speed, Grammo bars, American Classic wheels.

    If spacers can get the seatpost up to fit me, I want want want it.

  16. @David
    Do it!

  17. I hope to. The only problem is that the seat is currently 73.5cm from the BB. I just measured my current bike, and it’s closer to 78.5cm. Apparently they can lift the seat by 5cm with spacers – but we’ll see.

    Otherwise, it’s time to start looking at hire purchase – which will at least get me a warranty etc.

  18. But wait! My steel boat anchor is fixed gear and so I use 165mm Sugino track cranks to avoid pedal strike. So with 172.5mm road cranks, I’m actually looking at 77.5cm-ish or 4cm of spacers – a bit more possible. Maybe. Hopefully.

  19. @Cyclops

    How’d I miss your story before Jeff? Pretty freakin’ awesome, huh? I meticulously cleaned my 586 last night and I can’t believe how freaking sweet LOOK bikes are. My desire for a LOOK was mostly driven by the uniqueness of owning something that very few people in the local peloton have but now that I actually own one… It’s amazing.
    I liked the part in your story about getting set up on the bike at the LBS. After visiting Contender Bikes in SLC last weekend and getting top notch service even though I just bought a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff and reading your article I missed out on that aspect of the “dream” with my internet purchase.

    Sorry so long without a response. My participation on the site during June was sketchy at best.
    Aren’t Looks just rediculously awesome? I live in a city of 5,000,000 and I’ve seen exactly ONE other Look. I got a part-time gig at the shop that sold me the 595 because I had so much fun during the set-up. I’d been in the business for seven years back in the dark ages, so selling bikes again has been a seamless transition. As hard as I push them, though, I haven’t sold another Look. I get more “Who’s Look?” questions than any other comment. Just like everywhere else in the world, the PetroMetro is overstuffed with Trek and Specialized.

    BTW, your bike is pure, unadulterated hotness. As much as I love mine, and I’m sure Marcus feels the same about his, yours gives me such wicked Carbone. Congratulations!

  20. @David

    But wait! My steel boat anchor is fixed gear and so I use 165mm Sugino track cranks to avoid pedal strike. So with 172.5mm road cranks, I’m actually looking at 77.5cm-ish or 4cm of spacers – a bit more possible. Maybe. Hopefully.

    Do you ride Speedplay pedals? If not, you could switch and get yourself a little more reach, maybe.

  21. @Marcus
    I was just wondering why the front cage is upside down?

  22. @David
    According to Look, 4cm spacing on the seatpost is fine. More and it gets iffy. Setback is also something to think about. If it’s right for you, the setback on the E-post plus setting back the saddle on the rails is “Steve Bauer”–waaay back there.

  23. @RedRanger
    He attached his cages in his inky dark man-cave. It happens sometimes.

  24. @Jeff in PetroMetro

    Hopefully it’ll work. I’m a little worried it may already have 1-2cm of spacers.

    Worst case scenario though, I’ll just have no option but to buy a new bike.

  25. @David
    You’re right. Keep working with the LBS.

    I almost dropped a big Rule #58 violation on my fellow Velominati, but I exercised better judgment. Even though I didn’t sin by action, I sinned in my heart. I’ll repent with some intervals this evening. In 35C heat. A-Merckx.


  26. Didi stole my bike.

  27. Serious question. Look 695 (mondrian) with di2 or Colnago EPS with Super Record? Colnago has significantly better wheels and bars etc.

  28. @ David:
    am I missing something here?
    at this end of the market, choice of frame should hardly be decided by the bars that come supplied…

  29. @David

    Serious question. Look 695 (mondrian) with di2 or Colnago EPS with Super Record? Colnago has significantly better wheels and bars etc.

    Sorry for the extremely late response. Understandably, I have major carbone for LOOK. And I’d be insanely jealous if you to get the 695. You know, ’cause it’s 100 better than my 595.

    Seriously, I’d get the 695. There’s just something about LOOK. Read the article in the current edition of Rouleur. It’s a very detailed walk through the LOOK factory plus frank discussions with upper management about LOOK’s philosophy. G’phant, Cyclops, and I are jockeying for the next open employment opportunity at the LOOK office. Even if it means Assistant Floor Sweep.

  30. @Jeff in PetroMetro
    Edit: …I’d be insanely jealous if you get the 695. Please disregard the errant “to”.

  31. @Jeff in PetroMetro

    As hard as I push them, though, I haven’t sold another Look. I get more “Who’s Look?” questions than any other comment. Just like everywhere else in the world, the PetroMetro is overstuffed with Trek and Specialized.

    It’s amazing how much market share those brands seem to have. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a LOOK, Time, or BMC in the wild here. I see other Felts occasionally, and sometimes the rare Cervelo. When I do group rides obviously the number of fancy bikes goes up, but when I’m out solo I don’t see much worth LOOKing at (see what I did there?).

  32. Why not explore the possibilities and LOOK at other companies? For me, I FELT I had little TIME to act. I knew LOOK very well, so with FOCUS, but not quite at LITESPEED, I jumped at the chance.

    Oh, and I figured out what BMC stands for: Buy My Cervelo.

  33. @Jeff in PetroMetro

    Sometimes TREKing to a shop over and over again is a big hassle, so folks just go with what they know.

    And…. I’m done.

  34. @mcsqueak
    My Merckx, that was fun.

  35. @mcsqueak
    Great SCOTT, not another SPECIALIZED?

  36. @Jeff in PetroMetro
    Has this post outlived your first set of tyres or chain/cassette?

  37. @Marcus
    Original Hutchinson tires are long gone. Now running Continental GP 4000 clinchers. Chain and cassette seem fine. I keep my drive train pretty spotless, so they aren’t wearing out quite like I expected. All good so far.

  38. @Nate
    See? Fun!

  39. @Jeff in PetroMetro
    I didn’t think we should be putting the topic into the past tense yet.

  40. I went with the Colnago, and am very happy with it.

    Balancerider: Sure – but I mentioned it because I thought someone might ask, and I couldn’t be bothered listing the parts. Also, for me, both frames had huge pros and no real cons.

    The main factor was probably the groupsets and a concern that Di2’s long term durability is pretty untested. I know SR shifters can be rebuilt etc – but I was concerned that no one has really been running Di2 for more than a few years. I don’t plan to replace this bike for quite a while, and I suspect Campagnolo may last longer.

    Plus, the Colnago is beautiful. And weighs 6.9kg as is not 7.6kg. Which matters with my 80kg bulk, right>

  41. I’m soon to have a Look F&F, my first carbon bike.  Thanks for the inspiration.

  42. @Rob

    @Marcus
    I’ll second all that, and for myself will never go back. I use a specialized with the same concept and it really makes sense.

    I use a Spec Romin Evo Comp Gel. Great saddle. Gap prevents any sign of peristaltic paralysis. Perhaps the slightly more expensive Spec Romin Pro is a bit better.

  43. @DocBrian

    @Rob

    @Marcus
    I’ll second all that, and for myself will never go back. I use a specialized with the same concept and it really makes sense.

    I use a Spec Romin Evo Comp Gel. Great saddle. Gap prevents any sign of peristaltic paralysis. Perhaps the slightly more expensive Spec Romin Pro is a bit better.

    Peristaltic Paralysis???

    Hope that’s Apple spellcheck shitness, or you have a saddle that prevents constipation – the Speculum Romin Proctoscope??

  44. @ped

    @DocBrian

    @Rob

    @Marcus
    I’ll second all that, and for myself will never go back. I use a specialized with the same concept and it really makes sense.

    I use a Spec Romin Evo Comp Gel. Great saddle. Gap prevents any sign of peristaltic paralysis. Perhaps the slightly more expensive Spec Romin Pro is a bit better.

    Peristaltic Paralysis???

    Hope that’s Apple spellcheck shitness, or you have a saddle that prevents constipation – the Speculum Romin Proctoscope??

    The San Marco Aspide that was replaced could have been useful as an automatic tampon remover or for conducting deep prostate examinations.

  45. @DocBrian too bad – I love my Aspide

  46. @Tartan1749

    @DocBrian too bad – I love my Aspide

    Arse not what you can do for your saddle, but what your saddle can do to your arse.

  47. @Jeff in PetroMetro  Jeff – I am thinking about buying a slightly used 595 in medium.  I have a 595 in large.   One possible minor issue is toe – rub.  You mention it on your 595 – was your bike a medium with standard 172.5 cranks, and I assume standard shoe sizing?  Thanks – Tom

  48. @Tom in California
    just saw your post – Jeff hasn’t been round for ages. I miss him. But I think he is a tall fucker so would be of no use to you. I have a medium 595 with 172.5 cranks – never had an issue with toe rub. I have had bikes before that have had a bit of it. It aint no big deal either way. But it’s more about what that toe rub (ie. essentially a short wheelbase) means to the setup. As I say, I have never noticed toe rub on my 595 and I love it.

  49. @Marcus   thanks man, ur right, small overlap shouldn’t be basis for choosing a frame, just something I don’t want to even think about since I do sometimes make tight turns coming around on some of the steeper hills around here.

  50. @Tom in California
    If, during any sort of turn at speed, you ever have your front wheel turned at an angle where there might be a problem with toe overlap, you are fucked and about to go down hard! Toe overlap or not.

    It aint an issue on a hill. I guarantee it.

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