European Posterior Tubular (EPTB)
The divisive nature of Rule #29 is not to be underestimated. It is but a humble satchel, but our rejection of its use sends people completely out of their minds. One fine gentleman even threatened my editor at Cyclist Magazine with cancellation of his subscription on the basis that they published an article wherein I espoused the virtues of going EPMS-less. If I recall correctly, the reader felt my writing was, “a black eye on an otherwise flawless magazine.” Some people, it appears, really love their saddle bags.
Nevertheless, the truth remains: they are ugly and there is no need for one if you choose your tools carefully and maintain your bicycle appropriately. Granted, if you prefer an al fresco lunch mid-ride and therefore require room for a baguette, some brie, and a nice bottle of Burgundy, you may require more than a jersey pocket. Similarly, if you are of the mechanical inclination that requires you carry a press for on-the-road headset replacements, you might also require some additional storage. That said, if your mechanical skills are at a level that your bicycle is in such a state, I might argue that carrying a cell phone and an emergency contact list is really all you need because the tools are unlikely to help.
But I digress. Ugly though the EPMS may be, it is obviously perfectly acceptable to tie a spare tubular tire under your saddle. This is for the obvious and irrefutable reason that riding tubs is for the more cultured Velominatus and strapping a tire under the saddle is the traditional way the Europeans have handled carrying a spare tire ever since they stopped carrying them strapped over their shoulders. Do not allow yourself to be distracted by the fact that a European Posterior Tubular is often mistaken for an saddlebag. One is a nod to our heritage, the other an abomination sense and style. Trust me on this.
But carrying a spare tub does pose a challenge: how do you roll it up into a small enough package that it (a) doesn’t sway (b) doesn’t rub the insides of your pistoning guns and (c) doesn’t fall off and get tangled up in your wheel.
The first two are a matter of what style of tire to carry. The natural inclination is to carry a spare tire identical to the ones you are riding on your wheels, but that is likely to be a 23 or 25 mm tire and will be rather bulky when rolled up. Instead, the spare should be considered an emergency tire intended to get you safely through the rest of your ride; you’ll be pulling it off and gluing it on properly when you get home, so it can be chosen for its folding size and weight rather than to match it to the tires you normally ride. Then comes the question of how to roll it up into a tiny package which can be neatly strapped under the saddle (see photos). Finally – and I learned this the hard way – if the tire does come loose over some unusually rough roads (say, washboards on a high speed gravel descent), you will want it to stay in the small bundle rather than unwinding and getting tangled in your back wheel.
European Posterior Tubular Guidelines:
- Find a light, 19mm tubular tire. I use one by TUFO; it has no inner tube so it is skinny and light and rolls up tight.
- Pre-glue the tire and follow the below procedure to roll it up (photos).
- Wrap an industrial strength rubber band around the tire. This will keep it in its rolled up bundle with or without a toe strap, meaning it will stay in said bundle even as it tumbles from your saddle.
- Us a leather toe-clip strap and a leather toe-clip strap only to affix said tire to saddle. No pouches, not fabric straps. Make sure it is tight and secure the loose end of the strap.
- Respond to all accusations of violating Rule #29 with a defiant but tempered disgust which subtly hints that the accuser is an unsophisticated clincher rider who doesn’t understand the greater nuances of our sport.
[dmalbum path=”/velominati.com/content/Photo Galleries/[email protected]/Folding a Tub/”/]
@El Mateo I don’t qualify to be passing judgement on modifying the rules, but keeping the rear wheel secure is more important than anything else. Don’t have the lever backwards, though — don’t risk getting someone else’s front wheel trapped in there. Weirdly oversized tubes or an odd dropout might force something else, but that something else still looks wrong.
The proper location for the QR lever is bisecting the chainstay and seatstay.
@Dr C
Yep, tubulars were all we rode in the 80’s. We didn’t have EPMS’s then: all you had was the tubi under the seat and a frame pump. It isn’t as hard as you think to get that sucker off. Of course that was on aluminum rims so you could be as rough as you wanted.
That said, I have yet to pry the buggers off my cross wheelset and the Belgian tape is causing me some regret.
@fignons barber
I’ve got some Open Pros on my rain bike, and I’ll keep them; in fact, they are the only clinchers I intend to keep.
For me, the ride quality is far superior to clinchers, and the wheels themselves ride better because they don’t have as much weight around the rim, which is the part of the wheel that is moving the fastest.
I especially notice the difference in tires when climbing and cornering.
And, it goes without saying, their romanticism is a huge part of the fun for me, as well as the process of gluing them on which I love (and have gotten much better at).
@therealpeel
Wait…who says we have to cast off steel? Both these baby’s are modern steel and wonderfully fast! Equipped with Tubulars as well. ;-)
@John Liu
Why are you bringing a spoke wrench? Maintain your wheels, check of loose spokes regularly etc and no need for the additional baggage. (I do take one gravelling where a taco’s wheel could mean dying in the mountains.)
Also, I’d be more worried about the tarmac during on off-bike event than the tools in your pocket, but that’s just me.
I use a Lezyne V5 multitool, a Lezyne patch kit, a Lezyne Carbon Drive (its lighter than C02 – I only use C02 for races) and a spare latex inner tube (when I ride clinchers). Goes in the middle pocket with no sag and room to spare.
@frank, a little harsh calling us clincher riders unsophisticated (especially if we are riding cotton clinchers) but I suppose the path to enlightenment is about the journey not the finish line. Looks like a couple of nice little tips in there, especially pre-bundling it in case of it falling off.
Maybe I should consider some tubs, having taken delivery of my Park Tools PRS20 today, I am looking forward to significant amounts of fettling. Baste me in Dumonde Tech and call me in a week!!
@Ccos
Pitstop works great and when I train around town, I only take that with me, no spare tire. On longer rides and with company, I always take the spare. Good point though.
@pistard
Gatorskins are only good at keeping something from going directly through the tire – everything else sucks about them; they are not supple enough to roll over things and deflect objects, so they wind up being more flat-prone.
By far the most common tire we have punctures with on the cobbles is the Gatorskin. For a durable winter tire, the GP4000 4-Seasons (all seasons?) are the best choice, which is what I use on the rain bike.
Interesting on the Stans suggestion; I’ll try that. The nozzles on the Pitstop pop right back on, by the way.
@Gianni
That, and the glue holding the other two tires to the rim.
@Dr C Yes, and it’s a piece of piss.
@Haldy
Hell no we do not have to cast off steel. Those are hawt.
Someone mentioned what about keeping crap out of the spare tub. I don’t have a problem with that in clement conditions. If its not nice out, I seal up the spare in a tyvek Fedex envelope. Nothing gets in that thing.
@Cogfather
@pistard
We had one puncture on the sometimes-sharp gravel of Railroad Grade last weekend. The subject tire was…
A Gatorskin.
@Chris
So doesn’t your leg rub on it then?
@Teocalli
I have left the house with a spare inner tube on many occasions even when riding tubs…woops. Never the reverse thankfully. I keep all my gear that I might need on any given ride in a small sack that hangs by the bikes. When I kit up I collect from it what I need that day and I’m on my way; it forces me to think about what I’m taking with me which is a good thing.
@Dr C
It amazes me how easily tubs come off once you let some of the air out. I’ve changed tubs on a ride and I’d argue its faster than repairing a clincher flat.
Good to see you around again, you funny koont.
@Haldy
Beautiful bikes! What’s going on with the handlebars on the bike closest to the fence? Or it it in a transitional state of having no brakes, shifters etc?.
@therealpeel
Romanticizing the past while embracing the future is not talking out of both sides of your mouth; it’s holding one thing in reverence and using that reverence to put change in context.
And you’re confusing Looking Pro with Looking Fantastic. We want to Look Fantastic, not Pro – it just so happens that many Pros Look Fantastic.
And yes, I am such a poseur that I aim to look fantastic anywhere I go, all the time. I do it because I enjoy looking fantastic, even if no one else is around to see me.
And no need to cast off steel. She just isn’t my #1.
Unrelated, last weekend I had my very first experience with patching a tube and seeing it still hold air two days later.
While descending MTB trails on clinchers, I acquired a stick as thick as my pinky. I had tire levers and a Lezyne patch kit on hand with the metal scraper tool. A few minutes later and I was good to go. I think the key was scraping off enough of the butyl seam so the patch could seal off all the air gaps.
@wiscot I think it’s a track bike. Bars look like 3T Sphinx:
@pistard
I believe you’re right! Damn weird looking bars though . . .
@Ron there are several types of tape that will allow conversion of a standard clincher rim to tubeless. Of course, Stan’s sells tape to do it, as does AmericanClassic. I’ve even done it the cheap way & used Gorilla tape procured at Home Depot. it requires only non-porous rim tape of some sort. The biggest key is to sand down the anodization in the rim bed to ensure secure tape. You can use pre-made valves, also available from Stan’s or AC, or just cut the valves out of a pair of popped tubes. It is absolutely best to use removable core valves to ease putting in sealant. Road pressures are more than adequate to keep the bead seated, even on a non tubeless rim. That is the only real difference between standard clincher rims & tubeless ones, the bead shelf. As for you specifically, most Ksyriums do not have the outer rim wall drilled, so they are even easier to go tubeless on. You don’t even need tape to make them airtight. Unlike MTB or cross tires, it is essential to use tubeless tires as a non carbon bead will blow off at road pressures. There are several good videos on YouTube that will show exactly how to do it. It is easy. Some say that you need an air compressor to gain initial bead seating. I’ve found this to be bullshit & have setup up many wheels using a standard track pump. Tubeless ready rims can be setup without sealant, non tubeless ready need sealant to work. I don’t know why you wouldn’t use it however, as it basically eliminates punctures. I cannot stress this enough: if you try tubeless, you will be an immediate convert & never ride with tubes again. Hope that helps!
@Ccos
I’ve never needed any tool to get my tires off, but that doesn’t appear to be universally true.
@Ron
Most road wheelset makers warn strenuously against doing tubeless conversions on clincher rims. Conversion works ok on the dirty (MTB) side of things due to the higher volumes and lower pressures. Unless you don’t like your teeth/face, don’t convert a clincher only road rim to tubeless.
@Nate I’ve got to call bullshit on that dude. Most wheel manufacturers also include a dork disc & even reflectors on their wheels. Does that mean you use those??? Warnings against tubeless conversion are strictly a liability issue. I can state unequivocally that it can be done safely on any aluminum rim I’ve seen. Carbon may be another story. Read what Leonard Zinn has to say about it. I’ve ridden thousands upon thousands of km on converted non-tubeless ready rims & never had any issues. My teeth & face are just fine thanks. Even if you do flat (extremely unlikely) the bead on tubeless tires is tight enough that it will stay seated even when flat, even on non-tubeless rims. Don’t be such a pussy
@wiscot
The one next to the fence is one of my track bikes. Those are the 3T Sphinx bars.
@Cogfather
We’ll want a Rule established about calling each other “dude” — dude.
@Dr C
Yes, twice in the last 6000k. I’ve got Paves on my winter wheels so never had to change one. I had a taped on tub on some other training wheels last autumn (dont ask, hangs head in shame) so it was the proverbial piece of piss to change. I had another puncture the other day and when I took that one off (properly glued) it was quite a push but I find a thin bit of plastic from my tub kit to break the glue bond as you pull the tub off initially, makes it much quicker and easier. When I compare the time that people spend pissing about with clinchers, they might get them off slightly quicker, but they take a significantly longer time to get the new tube sorted out, what with checking for bits of glass in the tyre and such nonsense. Fear not!
@Cogfather
All this “enthusiasm” may have hurt your tubeless case actually.
@frank
Cement (Schlauchreifenkitt) may have been better back then — some sort of Golden Era.
@G’rilla
+1. brilliant.
@Nate
That sort of silver/grey bag that looks much like a Lezyne Caddy?
@Cogfather
@Nate
I don’t have nice teeth or a nice face but I do like them OK. I have Bontrager tubeless on the #1 with Campagnolo two-way fit wheels. I’ve read Zinn also and I believe he also advises to use tubeless specific rims for road riding. That bead locks in very nicely with tubeless specific rims. Also, Nate is no fucking pussy either. He will rip your legs off!
@Gianni
I thought that was an image of you last Saturday night butt an all, after the club run?
@Rob
Yeah, I’ve taken to riding without a jersey on. And smoking.
@Cogfather
Dude. None of my handbuilt tubular wheelsets came with dork disks or reflectors — should I send them back? (As I happily run tubulars, tubeless are an answer to a question I’m not asking).
Also, Rule #43.
@Teocalli
Here in the US they are white.
@Teocalli
Thank you.
You guys can hate & bust balls all you want about me saying “dude” & espousing the virtues of tubeless. I’m 40 & from California. We say dude here. Tubeless gives you most, if not all, the benefits of both tubs & clinchers. Those are the facts & they are indisputable. You all can carry on donking off money for tubes or your $120+ tubs & glue. I’ll save my money & keep rolling tubeless. Something else we say here in CA: now go ahead & put that in your pipe & smoke it
@Nate
Like so (please excuse the dangling toe strap):
@Cogfather Dude, we have a lot in common, except about what rubber we like to roll. And I prefer huffing glue to smoking things from pipes.
@Nate It’s painfully cliche, but that actually did make me Laugh Out Loud. Cheers brother, nothing but love here. Tubbies or tubeless :-)
@Nate
A photo to make Gianni proud…………
@Cogfather Cheers, bro.
@Teocalli
I’m feeling a bit dense — how so?
@Nate btw, what part of CA are you in anyway?
@Haldy
Those bikes are the sex…
My mechanic runs sealant in his training tubs, but I am amazed at the lack of punctures reported with them here from you lot.
After the accident, I ended up replacing wheels with Open Pros others have mentioned. They are a nice wheel, I notice they are well stiffer than my last set, run 5psi less because of it.
Regarding the tub in a figure 8 over the shoulders, presumably this would stick the glue all over your shoulders? I can only figure they rode with unglued spares BITD? 300+km with a sticky tub would get slightly irritating I would have thought.
Finally, I fucking love the sound of a tub on a deep section rim. I don;t have any, but in races they just rumble like a jet engine in the bunch. In a race the other week, I even noticed I could hear the tubs of the chap next to me squeaking! I presumed it was the latex tube inside rubbing on the inside of the sewup..
I like my Lezyne Caddy.
@Cogfather East Bay
@frank, I need to brush up on the difference of looking pro vs looking fantastic. My avid but not so detailed reading of previous post left the impression that they were basically the same thing.
@haldy @nsm500 and all others still on steel (and other alloys) thanks for preserving beauty.
@Cogfather
In the latest Velo News Technical FAQ Zinn says that for road tubeless he recommends tubeless-specific rims. The consequences of catasprophic failure could be very serious and there have been a couple of incicents lately of tubeless tyres blowing off of rims. There still seems to be a lack of standard for tubeless road tyres with phrases like “tubeless ready” and “tubeless compatible”. I wouldn’t go there, not yet anyway. Meow!
I’ve switched to wide rim clinchers (Pacenti SL23). The 18mm internal width allows me to run 25mm tyres at much lower pressure. Its very noticeably better than the standard narrow road clincher rim. I’d like to say it gives the feel of tubulars, but I would have a fucking clue having never ridden on them, so I’ll refrain.
@Nate Very cool. I have several very old friends who live in that area. I’m in Sacto myself. Next time I go down to visit, I’ll msg you & we can see if Gianni’s right about you ripping my legs off!