European Posterior Tubular (EPTB)

The European Posterior Tubular, tied on by a toe strap. This ain't no <a href=
EPMS." width="620" height="465" srcset="https://www.velominati.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/EuropeanPosteriorTubular-620x465.png 620w, https://www.velominati.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/EuropeanPosteriorTubular-1024x768.png 1024w" sizes="(max-width: 620px) 100vw, 620px" /> The European Posterior Tubular, tied on by a toe strap. This ain’t no EPMS.

The divisive nature of Rule #29 is not to be underestimated. It is but a humble satchel, but our rejection of its use sends people completely out of their minds. One fine gentleman even threatened my editor at Cyclist Magazine with cancellation of his subscription on the basis that they published an article wherein I espoused the virtues of going EPMS-less. If I recall correctly, the reader felt my writing was, “a black eye on an otherwise flawless magazine.” Some people, it appears, really love their saddle bags.

Nevertheless, the truth remains: they are ugly and there is no need for one if you choose your tools carefully and maintain your bicycle appropriately. Granted, if you prefer an al fresco lunch mid-ride and therefore require room for a baguette, some brie, and a nice bottle of Burgundy, you may require more than a jersey pocket. Similarly, if you are of the mechanical inclination that requires you carry a press for on-the-road headset replacements, you might also require some additional storage. That said, if your mechanical skills are at a level that your bicycle is in such a state, I might argue that carrying a cell phone and an emergency contact list is really all you need because the tools are unlikely to help.

But I digress. Ugly though the EPMS may be, it is obviously perfectly acceptable to tie a spare tubular tire under your saddle. This is for the obvious and irrefutable reason that riding tubs is for the more cultured Velominatus and strapping a tire under the saddle is the traditional way the Europeans have handled carrying a spare tire ever since they stopped carrying them strapped over their shoulders. Do not allow yourself to be distracted by the fact that a European Posterior Tubular is often mistaken for an saddlebag. One is a nod to our heritage, the other an abomination sense and style. Trust me on this.

But carrying a spare tub does pose a challenge: how do you roll it up into a small enough package that it (a) doesn’t sway (b) doesn’t rub the insides of your pistoning guns and (c) doesn’t fall off and get tangled up in your wheel.

The first two are a matter of what style of tire to carry. The natural inclination is to carry a spare tire identical to the ones you are riding on your wheels, but that is likely to be a 23 or 25 mm tire and will be rather bulky when rolled up. Instead, the spare should be considered an emergency tire intended to get you safely through the rest of your ride; you’ll be pulling it off and gluing it on properly when you get home, so it can be chosen for its folding size and weight rather than to match it to the tires you normally ride. Then comes the question of how to roll it up into a tiny package which can be neatly strapped under the saddle (see photos). Finally – and I learned this the hard way – if the tire does come loose over some unusually rough roads (say, washboards on a high speed gravel descent), you will want it to stay in the small bundle rather than unwinding and getting tangled in your back wheel.

European Posterior Tubular Guidelines:

  1. Find a light, 19mm tubular tire. I use one by TUFO; it has no inner tube so it is skinny and light and rolls up tight.
  2. Pre-glue the tire and follow the below procedure to roll it up (photos).
  3. Wrap an industrial strength rubber band around the tire. This will keep it in its rolled up bundle with or without a toe strap, meaning it will stay in said bundle even as it tumbles from your saddle.
  4. Us a leather toe-clip strap and a leather toe-clip strap only to affix said tire to saddle. No pouches, not fabric straps. Make sure it is tight and secure the loose end of the strap.
  5. Respond to all accusations of violating Rule #29 with a defiant but tempered disgust which subtly hints that the accuser is an unsophisticated clincher rider who doesn’t understand the greater nuances of our sport.

[dmalbum path=”/velominati.com/content/Photo Galleries/[email protected]/Folding a Tub/”/]

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199 Replies to “European Posterior Tubular (EPTB)”

  1. One piece of advice… if you have multiple wheel sets with tubs on (low, mid and deep section) never assume you have a ‘universal’ spare tub with you.  Make sure you have a small range of extensions.  One is the one that screws on, and you leave the valve open.  This is very useful for being able to pump up tub on a mid section rim, when you have a ‘short’ valve, or adding to any tub in any random circumstance.  

    Two a)  is the Vittoria extension which screws on to the tub at the base.  This allows you to swap the valve with a longer one,  pump it up, and , critically, shut the valve once pumped up.  

    Two b) is the Continental extension which screws in to the tub at the top of the valve.  Here, you take out the schraeder, screw it in, then add back the schraeder.

    And with those, you will feel much more relaxed if you take the little tiny plastic ‘spanner’ that allows you to remove and add them much more easily to a level of tightness that stops leakage.

    As you can imagine, I have learnt this through personal experience.

    In total – 10g of accessories to make your tub life complete.

    VLVTubitatus.

     

  2. Having one of my main events coming up in June where “failure is not an option” I’m struggling with what to fit and what to carry.  The route is allegedly 25% Strade Bianche of UK variety courtesy Beaching’s Cuts of the 1960s out of 170 km total.  Currently have Vittoria Corsa Evo and planning on carrying 2 x Continental Gatorskins plus Pitstop.  This is based on having to bail a ride the other week when I double punctured on cheaper Vittoria Rally where I only had the one spare with me.  Kinda feels overkill but nervous of the gravel sections and won’t have an opportunity to check them out beforehand.

  3. A-Merckx.

    @Teocalli Last time I did a big ride I took two spares.  Do you have something a tad tougher than a Vittoria Corsa to fit in the first instance?  Say, Paves or Veloflex Arenberg/Roubaix?  I hope your Contis are well stretched for spare duty.

  4. I love cycling heritage as much as the next guy, but I’ll go back to tubulars when I raise my hand after a flat and a minion hops out of a Skoda,changes it, and pushes me off.

    The tub era was done for me when Big Mig showed up at the 1992 Tour sporting Michelin Service Course clinchers. Soon after, I brought out my Nisi Countach/Croce d’aune’s  for races only, and purchased a new device called  a Mavic Open Pro.

  5. @fignons barber

    I love cycling heritage as much as the next guy, but I’ll go back to tubulars when I raise my hand after a flat and a minion hops out of a Skoda,changes it, and pushes me off.

    The tub era was done for me when Big Mig showed up at the 1992 Tour sporting Michelin Service Course clinchers. Soon after, I brought out my Nisi Countach/Croce d’aune’s for races only, and purchased a new device called a Mavic Open Pro.

    I hear ya! I haven’t reverted to tubs either and so far I can’t make up my mind. But just in case I did just cut the spokes out of some old six speed box section tubular wheels so I can stretch some tire on them .

  6. OK, at least I was not actually named in this article. EPMS vs EPTB, and a folding lesson too. It does look mighty pro, no one can argue that.

  7. May I inquire what tools shall be carried and where, when one is sans saddlebag?

    I tape a Park MT1 and a spoke wrench to the saddle rails, and slip a mini pump into the NDS jersey pocket.

    Reasoning: tools in the jersey pocket invite an Allen key to the vertebrae in event of an off-bike event, the spoke wrench makes a lousy nose ring, and while an elegant color-matched frame pump is a worthy accessory to a frame, a squat mini pump looks like a swelling pimple.  CO2 fits better in the jersey but we need all the upper body exercise we can get.

  8. @Nate

    A-Merckx.

    @Teocalli Last time I did a big ride I took two spares. Do you have something a tad tougher than a Vittoria Corsa to fit in the first instance? Say, Paves or Veloflex Arenberg/Roubaix? I hope your Contis are well stretched for spare duty.

    After wrestling with Conti’s, both clincher (GP4000) and tub (Competition) onto rims, I’d have them on the wheels to do/start the ride with. Definitely wouldn’t use Conti’s as spares.

  9. @fignons barber

    I love cycling heritage as much as the next guy, but I’ll go back to tubulars when I raise my hand after a flat and a minion hops out of a Skoda,changes it, and pushes me off.

    The tub era was done for me when Big Mig showed up at the 1992 Tour sporting Michelin Service Course clinchers. Soon after, I brought out my Nisi Countach/Croce d’aune’s for races only, and purchased a new device called a Mavic Open Pro.

    Time and place. Personally I run clinchers on my training wheelset but it’s tubulars all the way for racing. Around here I go through something in the order of 200 tubes a years. Yes, the roads are just that shit when it comes to debris, and no, none are pinch flats. No way I can justify using singles at that rate of consumption. On the other hand, I only suffered one flat whilst on tubs last year, on one so far this year so no problems justifying it there.

  10. @kevint

    you have nothing better to do with your time than deride the EPMS? get a life

    It is not a matter of derision but of guiding others along the path.

  11. @Nate

    @kevint

    you have nothing better to do with your time than deride the EPMS? get a life

    It is not a matter of derision but of guiding others along the path.

    Now you sound like Obi-Wan.

  12. Fricken iPad sent that one early. What I meant to say was whoops, I peeled the wrapper back on that one, sorry.

    Having gone tubeless this year I must say that I am questioning the amount of crap I carry. Do I take a tube in case of a catastrophic puncture? mini pump? why bother, you ain’t going to seal that bitch with half a cheekful of air each pump. If I have a huge deflation then I’m Up Shit Creek. So it’s CO2 and a spare tube.

    But it seems to not be happening. As in (smash head on desk) I haven’t flatted that badly to need to reinflate.

    Feck.

    WWEMXD?

  13. I use clinchers because I’ve only had clincher wheels (aluminum) and haven’t bought any tubular wheels, carbon or otherwise; plus I’m not sure I know how to glue them properly anyway.

    Regardless, I try to obey, yet I can’t find any leather straps… so I use these: http://www.backcountryresearch.com/CAMRATBRROAD-SADDLE-MOUNT_p_70.html

    I have the tube and co2 canister plus a couple of tyre levers wrapped up in that thing under my saddle. Neat as you like and it’s no EPMS.

    I put the rest of my spares/tools in this, which I think is superior to the Lezyne sack: http://www.backcountryresearch.com/TULBAG_p_41.html

    The textured back keeps anything from shuffling when you’re out of the saddle.

    VLVV

  14. I came late to the party regarding going sans EPMS (can not now believe I was disgracing my machine so), but in a nice way it’s got me in a Shackleton frame of mind when carrying shit in my pockets.

    If you want to ride tubies and look clean then carry a can of Vittoria’s pit stop and cross your fingers (or throw some sealant in those babies). Of course having a phone and a supportive VMH doesn’t hurt.

  15. @Teocalli

    Having one of my main events coming up in June where “failure is not an option” I’m struggling with what to fit and what to carry. The route is allegedly 25% Strade Bianche of UK variety courtesy Beaching’s Cuts of the 1960s out of 170 km total. Currently have Vittoria Corsa Evo and planning on carrying 2 x Continental Gatorskins plus Pitstop. This is based on having to bail a ride the other week when I double punctured on cheaper Vittoria Rally where I only had the one spare with me. Kinda feels overkill but nervous of the gravel sections and won’t have an opportunity to check them out beforehand.

    Continental-wise I’ve had more punctures on Gatorskins than the “regular” Sprinters and far fewer on Competitions (almost none, in fact). My favourite tubulars these days for rough roads and a bit of gravel are a set of Conti Competition PROtection “” 25mm with an extra layer of breaker under the tread and Gatorskin sidewalls. I think the tread will wear out before they flat. Hard to find though, basically have to fall off the back of a team car…

    I gave up on Pitstop after having nozzles pop off the can a couple times. The Santa Claus beard was funny; the walking less so. And it’s bulky. Now I carry a little bottle (50ml) of sealant with my mini pump. Stan’s is cheapest, and actually latex. Some are just a slurry of cellulose, to plug the hole rather than seal it.

    My experience with Vittoria Rally parallels yours. Never again.

  16. I gave up on pitstop after it didn’t work a couple times.

    I am not going to openly discuss lack of punctures otherwise out of an abundance of superstition.

  17. My wonderful and much more puncture free tubular experience includes carrying in back pocket a small sandwich bag with valve extension and the small plastic spanner and also a very small plastic bottle of liquid puncture repair, just in case, as first resort. My small spare tufo tyre also goes in the back pocket and has only been used once, as last resort, only 1km from home.

  18. @Nate

    I am not going to openly discuss lack of punctures otherwise out of an abundance of superstition.

    Of course. I read this midday, but waited until AFTER the (puncture-free) ride to say anything.  The flats (all three of them) will start tomorrow…

  19. I have spent years riding on tubulars, and for sometime took quite a bit of grief from my teammates for not even carrying a spare tire with me. Ironically…on the day I show up for a team ride with a spare properly stowed beneath my saddle…pffffttt…that’s right…a flat. Since then however, I have always carried a spare, and can count on one hand the number of flats I have had in 20+ years of racing/training. ( I am however NOT counting the one puncture I had on a velodrome…Marymoor Velodrome and ultralight track tubulars DO NOT get along with each other….)

  20. @batmobileau

    My wonderful and much more puncture free tubular experience includes carrying in back pocket a small sandwich bag with valve extension and the small plastic spanner and also a very small plastic bottle of liquid puncture repair, just in case, as first resort. My small spare tufo tyre also goes in the back pocket and has only been used once, as last resort, only 1km from home.

    I have to admit, writing this article made me wonder why the fuck it can’t just go into your pocket. Haven’t tried it since the idea crossed my mind in the last 12 hours; but we can’t all be geniuses, can we? Does seem more bulky than necessary and the rubber band and packing would still be a good plan even if it went into the jersey.

    But never mind these musings, I’m going to hold my line until I can prove the tire is as well served in the pocket.

    @Nate

    @kevint

    you have nothing better to do with your time than deride the EPMS? get a life

    It is not a matter of derision but of guiding others along the path.

    Jesus, this one is weak in the power of sarcasm, isn’t he (assuming his name is Kevin T, not Kev Int in which case I claim no assumption on his/her sex.)

    Either way, the interpretation of this article as being anything other than having nothing better to do that talk about how best to fold a tubular tire is, quite frankly, insulting.

  21. @frank

    @batmobileau

    My wonderful and much more puncture free tubular experience includes carrying in back pocket a small sandwich bag with valve extension and the small plastic spanner and also a very small plastic bottle of liquid puncture repair, just in case, as first resort. My small spare tufo tyre also goes in the back pocket and has only been used once, as last resort, only 1km from home.

    I have to admit, writing this article made me wonder why the fuck it can’t just go into your pocket. Haven’t tried it since the idea crossed my mind in the last 12 hours; but we can’t all be geniuses, can we? Does seem more bulky than necessary and the rubber band and packing would still be a good plan even if it went into the jersey.

    Hmmm….If you are using a tire with glue on it as the spare…I am not sure I’d want that in the pocket of my jersey. On a hot day, no matter how well folded there might be some issue with it sticking to the inside of the pocket methinks.

  22. @frank

    I have to admit, writing this article made me wonder why the fuck it can’t just go into your pocket. Haven’t tried it since the idea crossed my mind in the last 12 hours; but we can’t all be geniuses, can we? Does seem more bulky than necessary and the rubber band and packing would still be a good plan even if it went into the jersey.
    But never mind these musings, I’m going to hold my line until I can prove the tire is as well served in the pocket.

    As it happens I do carry mine in my pocket. I roll it similar as you have  shown above, but once the glued faces are together, fold in half (end to end) then once more – done. I then put it into a black sock. It fits the pocket better that way although yes, it does protrude a little but not significantly in my opinion. The sock keeps it clean and makes it look even better.

  23. @kevint

    you have nothing better to do with your time than deride the EPMS? get a life

    You’re the guy @Frank mentions in his article aren’t you. So did you cancel your subscription then?

  24. Having witnessed it in person @frank’s setup is impressively compact.

    I like wrapping my spare up with some electrical tape, which can be useful for field repairs.

    I’ve carried a second spare in a pocket on long rides.  Works OK.  I have actually been tempted to go Coppi/Bartali style in a figure 8 around the shoulders, but have never actually done so.

  25. Very important topic, this. I dont like bags and I prefer not to strap the spare tubular under the saddle, so here’s how I do it: New Tubular , prestetched, preglued, with long extension, micro multitool and spokey, in ziplock back, middle pocket of jersey, tools facing out. It’s pretty compact, and enough space for the light jacket in that pocket as well.

    VMH takes the same for longer rides, but sans tools. More than 2 flats and we hitch ( hasn’t happened) Pump is rolled in a paper serviette and stuffed into seatpost. Co2 cartridges give me problems in the moutains so I don’t use them.

    Only time we use the Clincher wheels is on 2-3 day credit card tours, with spare tube and lots of patches.

  26. @Gianni

    OK, at least I was not actually named in this article. EPMS vs EPTB, and a folding lesson too. It does look mighty pro, no one can argue that.

    I did think of you though while reading it!

  27. @Nate

    A-Merckx.

    @Teocalli Last time I did a big ride I took two spares. Do you have something a tad tougher than a Vittoria Corsa to fit in the first instance? Say, Paves or Veloflex Arenberg/Roubaix? I hope your Contis are well stretched for spare duty.

    I should have added that it’s on The Butler for L’eroica Britannia so Rule #26 means gum wall look to start with.

  28. To go on back pocket I do compact double roll thus. No outwards glue. Steve H (nee Batmobileau).

  29. @Teocalli

    @Gianni

    OK, at least I was not actually named in this article. EPMS vs EPTB, and a folding lesson too. It does look mighty pro, no one can argue that.

    I did think of you though while reading it!

    It’s one tire casing away from being the same thing, but I’m not going to bring that up.

    I’m looking to have less stuff crammed in my jersey so I think the tub under the seat is the way to go and it looks old school pro. But tires go get all crapped up from the rear tire wash, it would be well protected in that lezyne pvc bag…

  30. @Nate

    … I have actually been tempted to go Coppi/Bartali style in a figure 8 around the shoulders, but have never actually done so.

    The figure 8 is how I’ve had to carry home the tire carcass after flating (that one time).

  31. @Gianni

    @Teocalli

    @Gianni

    OK, at least I was not actually named in this article. EPMS vs EPTB, and a folding lesson too. It does look mighty pro, no one can argue that.

    I did think of you though while reading it!

    It’s one tire casing away from being the same thing, but I’m not going to bring that up.

    I’m looking to have less stuff crammed in my jersey so I think the tub under the seat is the way to go and it looks old school pro. But tires go get all crapped up from the rear tire wash, it would be well protected in that Lezyne pvc bag…

    Between #1 on tubeless, #2 on vintage Tubs, #3 on Clinchers (Rule #9 bike) my fear is setting of with the wrong spares in my pocket.  But I package my tub and pump together and they fit in my centre pocket fine.

    You could try cling film?  Where does cling film stop and become an Lezyne PVC EPMS?

  32. @Steve H Very tidy. What sort of tubular is it?

    I use a Vittioria Corsa which doesn’t fold down anywhere as neat as @franks or yours but it still fits under the saddle – just needs a strap under the saddle and one round the post.

  33. @Chris

    I use a Vittioria Corsa which doesn’t fold down anywhere as neat as @franks or yours but it still fits under the saddle – just needs a strap under the saddle and one round the post.

    As seen to the right of a smirking @roadslave525

    I will hold my hand up and admit that the straps aren’t leather. I’ll rectify this before I take it out again.

  34. Being a Velominatus, I am inherently keen on tradition & cycling history. However, I cannot see why one would run tubs unless blessed with a support vehicle. I personally detest tubes with all that is in me. Traditional clinchers or tubs are both subject to failure of frail tubes. Why everyone does not go tubeless defies logic to me. Any clincher rim can be setup tubeless. It does not require tubeless rims. After seething with anger at having to buy another $.50 tube for $8 at the LBS a couple of years ago, I took the plunge. I’ve not had a puncture or bought another cursed tube since. Tubeless are superior in every way. To wit: cheaper than tubs, possess/require sealant which virtually eliminates punctures, permit much lower (& more comfortable pressures, the list goes on. In the event of a catastrophic sidewall tear, you can always throw in a cursed tube to complete your ride. I’ve been carrying a single, solitary tube for 2 years. The only time I’ve needed the spare in that time was to give it to a mate who had punctured, yet again, one of his standard clinchers. Tubeless rule. Full stop. Here endeth the lesson

  35. @Cogfather

    Being a Velominatus, I am inherently keen on tradition & cycling history. However, I cannot see why one would run tubs unless blessed with a support vehicle. I personally detest tubes with all that is in me. Traditional clinchers or tubs are both subject to failure of frail tubes. Why everyone does not go tubeless defies logic to me. Any clincher rim can be setup tubeless. It does not require tubeless rims. After seething with anger at having to buy another $.50 tube for $8 at the LBS a couple of years ago, I took the plunge. I’ve not had a puncture or bought another cursed tube since. Tubeless are superior in every way. To wit: cheaper than tubs, possess/require sealant which virtually eliminates punctures, permit much lower (& more comfortable pressures, the list goes on. In the event of a catastrophic sidewall tear, you can always throw in a cursed tube to complete your ride. I’ve been carrying a single, solitary tube for 2 years. The only time I’ve needed the spare in that time was to give it to a mate who had punctured, yet again, one of his standard clinchers. Tubeless rule. Full stop. Here endeth the lesson

    A-Merckx, my man.

  36. Even at the local group rides that bring out some strong legs, I’m still shocked at things like the number of EPMS. It’s bonkers.

    One should be able to find local rides which include only Rules adherent cyclists. Alas, even in a niche sport (in the U.S. at least) and when nearly ensconced in the deepest regions of the niche, there are still folks who don’t get it.

    Since we’re talkin’ tires. I need some new commuter tires. I’ve been riding 28mm Gatorskins. This bike is almost exclusively for commuting and grocery gettin’, but I sometimes ride it on road rides in really awful weather (full fenders, don’t care about road grit, etc.). Would 32’s be overkill? Or that much nicer of a ride.

  37. Cogfather – I run tubeless on my CX race bike. I have some Ksyrium wheels that are happy with Vittoria tires, pretty easy setup. What are you doing on non-tubeless ready road rims? Using a pre-made rim strip? Using a strip you’ve made from an old tube? I’d be curious to hear more.

    And Frank, you mention needing to carry a baguette and brie. Well, that is why we have our ol’ trusty n+1, right? You don’t ride your road race bike for a weekend picnic ride. You ride the commuter. Or the Picnic Bike. I’m always baffled when people buy a road bike and then set it up in Sit Up and Beg position with a rising 80mm stem, a saddle with a gel cover, and a rack. Why bother with the road bike? (and don’t tell me money! Get a $100 commuter at the local LBS that has trade-ins or a garage sale, and then get a used road bike. You can have both for less than your new Sora equipped road bike.)

  38. Now that this subject has been thoroughly hashed out, and properly so, we need to turn our attention to Rule #41. The other day, as I perused  the Giro photos on CyclingNews.com, I was flabbergasted to find that the Movistar team bikes had the rear QR closed beneath the chain stay (pointing forward) instead of the customary bisecting of the seat and chain stay as is clearly stated in Rule #41. It makes sense in that on my bike the seat & chain stays are of sufficient diameter to cause a bit of interference with my HED QR’s. You have to dial it in perfectly or the QR will be touching the frame or, worse yet, not tight enough. Of course I’ve always taken the time to dial it in perfectly but by clamping below the chain stay all this fussing is eliminated. There is nothing wrong with the original rule but sometimes the rules need amending…

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/giro-ditalia-race-tech-its-all-in-the-details/305107

  39. So has anyone actually changed a flatted tub on a ride? I have yet to try to strip a tub of a rim, but looking t the Zipp video, it looks like the sort of thing you can only do after a hearty breakfast on a sunny morning off

    I have three sets of tubulars on the go, and a can of Zefal 100ml – if I flat on a club ride, my plan is to dive headfirst into a hedge and feign a neck injury – I live quite close to the local A+E, so reckon having made a spontaneous recovery en route, the ambulance drivers will drop me off at the house to save the paperwork

    Otherwise I like your tyrigamy @Frank

  40. So has anyone actually changed a flatted tub on a ride? I have yet to try to strip a tub of a rim, but looking t the Zipp video, it looks like the sort of thing you can only do after a hearty breakfast on a sunny morning off

    I have three sets of tubulars on the go, and a can of Zefal 100ml – if I flat on a club ride, my plan is to dive headfirst into a hedge and feign a neck injury – I live quite close to the local A+E, so reckon having made a spontaneous recovery en route, the ambulance drivers will drop me off at the house to save the paperwork

    Otherwise I like your tyrigamy @Frank

    ….or is it tubigamy?

  41. @Cogfather

    Tubeless are superior in every way. To wit: cheaper than tubs, possess/require sealant which virtually eliminates punctures, permit much lower (& more comfortable pressures, the list goes on.

    I beg to differ. While tubeless may have some advantages, they can never, NEVER, match the comfort and cornering ability of tubulars. Period. Clinchers and tubeless( since it is just a modified clincher) have to hook into the bead of the rim for that system. As such it causes a sidewall deflection in the tire both when just rolling up right and when cornering that tubulars do not suffer from. As such a tubular can compress in a more cushioning way, as well as grip better in a turn since there is much less sidewall deflection. They are also lighter!

    While I am not contesting some of the benefits of tubeless that you mention…they are not superior in EVERY way.

  42. @Cogfather

    Being a Velominatus, I am inherently keen on tradition & cycling history. However, I cannot see why one would run tubs unless blessed with a support vehicle. I personally detest tubes with all that is in me. Traditional clinchers or tubs are both subject to failure of frail tubes. Why everyone does not go tubeless defies logic to me. Any clincher rim can be setup tubeless. It does not require tubeless rims. After seething with anger at having to buy another $.50 tube for $8 at the LBS a couple of years ago, I took the plunge. I’ve not had a puncture or bought another cursed tube since. Tubeless are superior in every way. To wit: cheaper than tubs, possess/require sealant which virtually eliminates punctures, permit much lower (& more comfortable pressures, the list goes on. In the event of a catastrophic sidewall tear, you can always throw in a cursed tube to complete your ride. I’ve been carrying a single, solitary tube for 2 years. The only time I’ve needed the spare in that time was to give it to a mate who had punctured, yet again, one of his standard clinchers. Tubeless rule. Full stop. Here endeth the lesson

    A-Merckx, my man.

    You know the saying about everyone having ab opmouths I think it applies here.  I do think the Velomintae speak out of both sides of their mouths.  On one side we embrace most things “old school” but on the other we lust the latest greatest laterally stiff but vertically compliant ride possible. Thus we cast off steel in exchange for glorified plastic.  We hope to look Pro, but do we have any real idea how a pro rides 90% of the time, while training?  Do we really desire to be such poseurs, that every time we kit up we want to look like we are heading to the start line of a pro-tour race?

    Regardless of my ramblings and questions- I recognize that I must Rule #1 and Rule #5.

  43. @Ron Yes, going from 28’s to 32’s will be noticeable.  I often run 28’s (on wide rims) for my commuting bike.  I’ve tried some 33.3mm “Jack Brown”‘s (by Rivendell).  If you run the appropriately-lower air pressures, you’ll definitely notice the ride difference.  I also felt they were a little more sluggish, so your local conditions will dictate which one is better for you.  If my local roads were even a touch crappier than they already are, I’d go with 32’s.

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