The Goldilocks Principle: Deflategate

The Rider is the best book ever written about Cycling. I don’t mean that figuratively, I literally mean that literally. I say this despite having had my hand in writing our own Book about Cycling. What makes this book great is not just the prose, which is immaculate, but the spirit of the Velominatus that permeates the work. My friend @ErikdR recently sent me a copy in the original Dutch and, to my amazement, the English translation loses very little of the subtext that most translations do. Still, some expressions as they are written in Dutch carry so much meaning that it is impossible to translate into a foreign tongue. This is the essential underlying art, the intangible essence that separates language from communication.

Early in the book, Krabbé rides a short warm-up and upon reaching his turn-around point, climbs off to answer the call of nature. As he remounts, he carefully wipes his tires clean before setting off back towards the start/finish line. I had never noticed that bit of the book before but the Dutch version used a particular turn of phrase that expressed, if not a love, then an unusual degree of care given to an inanimate object.

And I realized, at that moment, that Cyclists today don’t love their tires anymore; clinchers have desensitized us against the miracle of riding on a membrane supported only by air. Tubulars, on the other hand, make you work to appreciate their miracle. You have to huff some glue (technically that counts as a win-win), you have to align the tyre properly, you have to keep the glue off both the braking surface and the sidewall, which seems like a paradox to the uninitiated. Tubulars make you work for it, they help you appreciate that a tire isn’t a bit of disposable kit; it is a commitment towards mutual benefit.

I was raised like every other Merckx-fearing Velominatus: on a strict diet of Rule #5, long hours in the saddle, and 19mm tires pumped to the highest number the sidewall said to pump them to. Which was usually around 10 bar (150 psi). Simple physics: less surface area meant less friction, and everyone knows friction is an asshole.

Until the last few years, I’ve ridden 23mm tires at 8 bar, no questions asked. In the past few years, however, we’ve come to understand that lower pressures and wider tires provide some significant benefits, like being faster and more comfortable, to pick two. I have accepted this transition like a toddler “accepts” his vegetables.

Like Grandpa adjusting to color film in his camera, I have gradually moved towards wider tires at lower pressures. I’ve been experimenting with 25mm, 26mm, and 27mm tires for the last few seasons, pumped up anywhere from 6.5 to 8.5 bar. (On the cobbles in Northern Europe, I ride them at 5 to 5.5 bar, depending on the conditions.) Empirically, the difference in ride quality by tire pressure comes down first to the quality of the tire and its materials, the weight and riding style of the rider, countered by the road conditions.

Mileage may vary based on your weight and tire, but for now I’ve landed on 26mm tires at 7.5 bar. Now I’m just waiting for my order of Gianni’s Digital Lezyne pressure gauge to show up so I can really get down to business.

 

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125 Replies to “The Goldilocks Principle: Deflategate”

  1. @asyax

    Couple of things – almost finished reading “Gironimo” by Tim Moore – a freebie in the KT15 musette. great read and laugh out loud. “The Rider” is next though @Frank – though I’ll probably steer clear of the dutch version.

    Getting some new wheels made up – White Industry T11 hubs and HED Belgiums 32/28 – hope I don”t wreck these. I recently put a set of 25mm Vittoria Open Pave’ clinchers on my Mavics at 120psi/ 125psi – such a difference to the Gatorskins and Durano-Plus that I have previously run. Will probably get another set of the Pave’s for the HED’s as a winter setup.

    …And my 22 is pretty bloody filthy!

    You should try the HED/Pave combo at about 90-95.

  2. For the record I’m currently running 25mm GP4000 clinchers & they never exceed 100psi. More likely start around the 90 mark & rarely get reinflated more than once a week.

    They also get wiped at the same time I’m cleaning the brake tracks. Lay washcloth on hand ensuring it reaches the ends of both thumb & forefinger, wrap hand over wheel applying pressure on the rim with aforementioned digits, tyre surface should press in to palm, rotate wheel.

  3. For me a set of Schwable 25mm ZR’s at no more than 90 psi. Great race tyre, roll beautifully and grippy. Just got some Ones for when these wear out.

  4. @ Antihero

    Ignore the sturm and drang about how gluing a set of tires takes 4 days and requires sacrificing a chicken and whatnot.

    +1 for bringing in 19th century literary reference and ritual sacrifice in one fell swoop.

    I’m still in clinchers on my Campy Record / Open Pro / Conti 4 Seasons 25mm wheels – but will go for a set of Tub wheels when I reach a stage of extra wheelsets.

  5. @Mikael Liddy

    HEDs invoking Neal Stephenson: you want to talk contact patches? I’m in touch with the road. Start like a bad day and stop on a peseta.

    Disagree on the Gatorskins: bullet-proof and grippy.

    Also: if you do clinchers (and I do), latex tubes. They’re like frilly knickers no one sees, but they make you feel good. But maybe I’m revealing too much…

  6. @Steampunk

    We’ll have to agree to disagree on the gators, I spent a winter on them (coincided with my return from a busted c/b) and I swear that delayed my descending confidence returning by at least a year!

  7. @unversio

    @Nate

    You people running Contis need to branch out.  There is much more to a good tire than puncture resistance.

    What’s your best recommendation that won’t cost more than $60.00 per tyre — tire ??

    Vittoria (Corsa Evo CX, yum!) easily fall under that price-bracket online, as do Challenge’s open tubs. Schwalbe One also, if you prefer vulcanized – pretty decent tyre.

  8. @VeloJello

    @KogaLover

    @VeloJello

    Any idea why cleaning tires is advised to be done using vinagre? I read somewhere is because of some sort of way put on the tires to keep them supple when they are shipped. But surely after the first 50km, that’s gone.

    Haven’t a clue. I reserve vinegar for my chips and, when the season permits, my conkers.

    no idea what conkers are, so I looked it up and I found this appropriate quote on using vinager for hardening your conkers. “Such hardening is, however, usually regarded as cheating.” Bit like doping in cycling: such hardening is, however, usually also regarded as cheating.

  9. @Gianni

    No, it just means cycling is not a case of simple physics.

    In theory, the term for contact patch area cancels out in the case of rigid objects – friction (grip for example) is proportional to the pressure and the size of the contact area, but the pressure is inversely proportional to the contact area – so it’s pretty much a wash. I ran this calculation sometime in the first year of my BA.

    In practice, it’s not rigid and it doesn’t cancel out, and the balance of grip (good friction) and rolling resistance (bad friction) is dependent on far too many things than just size – though all things point to tyre size being an important indicator of rolling resistance, whether causally or just because it indicates other properties.

  10. @tessar

    Sounds like the properties of the rubber compound itself would be the largest factor with “grip” and transferring kinetic energy. And then how much surface area of the rubber compound is acting on the road — and the surface conditions of the road itself — and then how much “belief” is there that demands that any given tire is awesome — or that the tire simply sucks — and then there is the color of the tire too.

  11. @KogaLover

    Didn’t the Top Gear guys play conkers with caravans at some point? Fond memories. Not sure if vinegar entered the picture at the time, but knowing Clarkson, Hammond and May, it probably did (along with Piss)

  12. @tessar

    @Gianni

    In practice, it’s not rigid and it doesn’t cancel out, and the balance of grip (good friction) and rolling resistance (bad friction) is dependent on far too many things than just size – though all things point to tyre size being an important indicator of rolling resistance, whether causally or just because it indicates other properties.

    Five minutes ago, I still considered myself modestly intelligent… Ah well, illusions are there to be shattered, I reckon.

  13. @frank

    @Ron

    I assumed there would be much more moaning about the fact that its a reference to a recent American Football incident, which is much worse than what you are describing.

    I have been doing my best to tune out the popular American sports for years now. Football is just platform to sell people more big trucks, more cell phones, and really shitty lite beer.

    Sorry about my moaning. None today, it’s Friday and it’s a long weekend. AND the college championships for my first favorite sport are this weekend. Possibly more obscure than cycling and also only followed by real enthusiasts.

  14. The VMH is keen on doing more road riding these days. For her July 4th birthday I’m gonna set her up on some Veloflex Masters in 25 with latex tubes. Will be a nice improvement over the GP4000s with butyl tubes.

    Now I just wonder if she’ll notice the ride quality difference or if I’ll have to tell her how it’s better…

  15. @Ron

    The VMH is keen on doing more road riding these days. For her July 4th birthday I’m gonna set her up on some Veloflex Masters in 25 with latex tubes. Will be a nice improvement over the GP4000s with butyl tubes.

    Now I just wonder if she’ll notice the ride quality difference or if I’ll have to tell her how it’s better…

    You are a good husband sir.

  16. @Ron

    The VMH is keen on doing more road riding these days. For her July 4th birthday I’m gonna set her up on some Veloflex Masters in 25 with latex tubes. Will be a nice improvement over the GP4000s with butyl tubes.

    Now I just wonder if she’ll notice the ride quality difference or if I’ll have to tell her how it’s better…

    This is an interesting blind test that I would be interested in learning the outcome of, particularly as I am considering the same switch. Please do report back, post birthday ride.

  17. @Nate

    @Ron

    LAX?

    Are you asking me to come visit you? I thought you were further north in California?

    But, if you mean lacrosse, yes. One year of that awful game of baseball, then 15 years of lacrosse. Even was able to bike over to UNC-CH the other week and watch my alma mater blow it in the 1st round.

    Been listening to the “lacrosse is really growing” nonsense since I was a kid. Sure it is. And sure it’ll never be much more than a niche sport. Yes, pockets here and there, but it’s a NE sport. Go figure, considering I grew up playing Iroquois teams.

  18. @Nate

    @Ron

    The VMH is keen on doing more road riding these days. For her July 4th birthday I’m gonna set her up on some Veloflex Masters in 25 with latex tubes. Will be a nice improvement over the GP4000s with butyl tubes.

    Now I just wonder if she’ll notice the ride quality difference or if I’ll have to tell her how it’s better…

    You are a good husband sir.

    We closed on our first house yesterday; that really makes me a good husband!!!

    Now…resist all other bike purchases and save up to build a 1st rate bike barn. We’ve got a 1 acre backyard, huge considering we live right downtown in a city.

  19. @Ron

    @Nate

    @Ron

    LAX?

    Are you asking me to come visit you? I thought you were further north in California?

    Hey thats right I am a norcal guy.

    But, if you mean lacrosse, yes. One year of that awful game of baseball, then 15 years of lacrosse. Even was able to bike over to UNC-CH the other week and watch my alma mater blow it in the 1st round.

    Been listening to the “lacrosse is really growing” nonsense since I was a kid. Sure it is. And sure it’ll never be much more than a niche sport. Yes, pockets here and there, but it’s a NE sport. Go figure, considering I grew up playing Iroquois teams.

    Definitely a NE sport, yup.  But it seems to be getting popular out here too.  My impression of it is a bit prepschooly in general but very cool that you played against the people that originated the game.  I like John McPhee’s writing on it also.

  20. @Ron

    @Nate

    @Ron

    The VMH is keen on doing more road riding these days. For her July 4th birthday I’m gonna set her up on some Veloflex Masters in 25 with latex tubes. Will be a nice improvement over the GP4000s with butyl tubes.

    Now I just wonder if she’ll notice the ride quality difference or if I’ll have to tell her how it’s better…

    You are a good husband sir.

    We closed on our first house yesterday; that really makes me a good husband!!!

    Now…resist all other bike purchases and save up to build a 1st rate bike barn. We’ve got a 1 acre backyard, huge considering we live right downtown in a city.

    Congrats, you are a real grown up now!  I bought last year and have put off thoughts of spending real $$ on bikes…. indefinitely.

  21. @Bespoke

    @Ron

    The VMH is keen on doing more road riding these days. For her July 4th birthday I’m gonna set her up on some Veloflex Masters in 25 with latex tubes. Will be a nice improvement over the GP4000s with butyl tubes.

    Now I just wonder if she’ll notice the ride quality difference or if I’ll have to tell her how it’s better…

    This is an interesting blind test that I would be interested in learning the outcome of, particularly as I am considering the same switch. Please do report back, post birthday ride.

    You don’t have to wait, my friend. I made this switch a few years ago. Was on the GP 4000s with butyl.

    Now am on: 1) Open Pro rims, Record hubs, Vittoria Corsa SC tires in 25mm with Vredestein latex tubes. What a ride! 2) Mavic SuperLight wheels with 25mm Veloflex Masters with Vredestein tubes. Sure, they’re not tubulars. However, the ride quality is far superior. No question. I’d never go back to other tires.

    Latex tubes take a bit more care in installing, but they’re worth it for me. I also have no problems with tire lifespan or punctures either. No more, and probably less, than when I was riding Continental GPs.

  22. @Ron

    @Bespoke

    @Ron

    The VMH is keen on doing more road riding these days. For her July 4th birthday I’m gonna set her up on some Veloflex Masters in 25 with latex tubes. Will be a nice improvement over the GP4000s with butyl tubes.

    Now I just wonder if she’ll notice the ride quality difference or if I’ll have to tell her how it’s better…

    This is an interesting blind test that I would be interested in learning the outcome of, particularly as I am considering the same switch. Please do report back, post birthday ride.

    You don’t have to wait, my friend. I made this switch a few years ago. Was on the GP 4000s with butyl.

    Now am on: 1) Open Pro rims, Record hubs, Vittoria Corsa SC tires in 25mm with Vredestein latex tubes. What a ride! 2) Mavic SuperLight wheels with 25mm Veloflex Masters with Vredestein tubes. Sure, they’re not tubulars. However, the ride quality is far superior. No question. I’d never go back to other tires.

    Latex tubes take a bit more care in installing, but they’re worth it for me. I also have no problems with tire lifespan or punctures either. No more, and probably less, than when I was riding Continental GPs.

    Ron is right.  It’s an interesting blind test on a presumably nonobsessive subject.  You, however, are a Velominatus and should heed the call of the Veloflex now.

  23. Nate – I KNOW! I have been dragging my feet in grad school and riding my bikes just to delay adulthood. Damnit, I think it’s finally here. In actuality, things are really great overall for me/us, so I can’t complain. Plus, I’m still on a bicycle seven days a week, so that is a good way to stay young and young at heart. And thank you. It feels pretty incredible to have a place to settle in. And, I’m looking forward to not moving for years and years. Moving is terrible. Congratulations on your settling down too!

    I need a new wheelset, but that’s really all I want these days. Been on mismatched OP rims on my Casati for five years. Don’t blame me, blame the original owner who had them built up. I’m just trying to set things right!

    McPhee has done a nice job. Yup, lacrosse does have the unfortunate prep school aspect. I played with a lot of them in college. But, in New York State it is a huge sport and all the public schools field girls and boys teams. The only “prep” schools that have it in NY are the Catholic schools. But in MD and NH and MA and NJ the big-time, big $ prep schools take it seriously. Upstate NY is a hotbed and Long Island even more so, with their insane population density. Look at every good college team and they’ll have 25-50% of the team from NYS. Look at the best college player this year, he’s from Onondaga Nation, which is near Syracuse.

    It’s still very much a traditional game in the sense that the same high schools and areas have been producing the best players for years and years. And, most of the best players have a father or uncle who played. Syracuse has two players on the team who are the sons of coaches. My uncle played in college and gave me a stick when I was 8. His college teammate started the program in my town. His other college teammate…Bill Tierney, 4 time national champ, and the guy who has made Denver a powerhouse, though their program is quite new. The guy is an excellent coach. And yeller, he’s comical to watch berate the refs and his players. I’ve bumped into the Duke coach walking around town (well, he was walking, I was cycling) and spoken with him. He coached two of my brother’s high school teammates at Hofstra. Very small world in this sport, which is a lot like cycling in a sense.

    It’s a great sport, I just worry it’s going the way of surfing; more about the gear and ‘tude than the soul and passion.

  24. @Nate

    @Ron

    @Bespoke

    @Ron

    The VMH is keen on doing more road riding these days. For her July 4th birthday I’m gonna set her up on some Veloflex Masters in 25 with latex tubes. Will be a nice improvement over the GP4000s with butyl tubes.

    Now I just wonder if she’ll notice the ride quality difference or if I’ll have to tell her how it’s better…

    This is an interesting blind test that I would be interested in learning the outcome of, particularly as I am considering the same switch. Please do report back, post birthday ride.

    You don’t have to wait, my friend. I made this switch a few years ago. Was on the GP 4000s with butyl.

    Now am on: 1) Open Pro rims, Record hubs, Vittoria Corsa SC tires in 25mm with Vredestein latex tubes. What a ride! 2) Mavic SuperLight wheels with 25mm Veloflex Masters with Vredestein tubes. Sure, they’re not tubulars. However, the ride quality is far superior. No question. I’d never go back to other tires.

    Latex tubes take a bit more care in installing, but they’re worth it for me. I also have no problems with tire lifespan or punctures either. No more, and probably less, than when I was riding Continental GPs.

    Ron is right.  It’s an interesting blind test on a presumably nonobsessive subject.  You, however, are a Velominatus and should heed the call of the Veloflex now.

    Okay. It shall be done. Forthwith!

  25. @RobSandy

    I’m still running the cheapy 23mm clinchers that came with the bike. I reckon by now I might as well run them into the ground before replacing them with something half decent. And 25’s seem to be the way to go, probably Conti Gatorskins as it’s what my LBS recommended and they’re not to pricey.

    I tend to pump mine hard (110-120psi) as I’m a heavy rider and I’m convinced I get more punctures when my tyres are soft (although I’ve not had one on my new bike in over 1,600ks of riding).

    If I may, gator skins are the worst tires I’m presently aware of. Their approach to puncture resistance is to make them very tough, whereas a more supple tire generally can flex around whatever is about to cause a flat.

    9 times out of 10, the rider in the group with a flat is one with the gator skins.

    Try the Conti Four Seasons instead; very good tire and durable.

  26. @freddy

    Thanks for the bandjes banter, Frank…I think we’re starting to like our vegetables, but the bike brands aren’t all on board with their tire clearances. What’s up with that?

    [Btw, I’m currently running 28mm Conti GP 4 Seasons due to post-winter asphalt irregularities and crap still on the roads. I’ll soon switch to my standard GP 4000 SII’s in the 25 width (5-6bar–I’m about 75kg)]

    Sadly, I had to take the 27mm FMBs pictured off as they were rubbing the frame. That said, FMBs are very big; their 25 is more like a 27 and their 27 is really a 29…

    @antihero

    Moving to tubulars was the best thing I’ve every done for my bikes.  Hands down, no contest.

    Reasons:  a 24mm Pave Evo CG tubular has a ride quality like a big fat 32mm clincher, without all the weight.  They don’t puncture, even when ridden repeatedly over shards of glass.  I can ride gravel or mild singletrack on them, no problem.  Need to bunny hop a pothole onto a broken bottle?  I’ve done this more than once, sans problem.

    The mechanical work of mounting the tires brings you closer to your bike.  You must understand the machine, understand the interface, and care about it and love it enough to learn how to make it work.  Once you’ve glued a few tires, it’s no longer a chore.  Ignore the sturm and drang about how gluing a set of tires takes 4 days and requires sacrificing a chicken and whatnot.  Once you’ve got the hang of it and a nice base coat on your rims, a tidy and strong glue job can be accomplished with 30 minutes’ work, most of which is spent drinking beer and waiting for the glue to set up a bit.

    I run fast and loose with this too. I have no qualms whatsoever riding tires I glued on minutes previous. Just don’t hang ten in the corners until they’ve sat a day or two.

    I love that it’s not easy to get a run on straight and without bulges. You have to work at it, massage it.

    A well glued-on tire is something to be proud of.

    @KogaLover

    @the Engine

    I love the quote “his 22 was still clean”. I think about that when I go uphill and did not need to use the lowest gear. Although  must admit that it’s not the 22 that’s still clean then…

    Totally.

  27. @Nate

    @frank

    Did you manage to source a set of the latex tubed Ones? I have some 24s on my Shamals, they are a very nice tire. However I am given to understand that Schwalbe are now producing them with butyl tubes, which defeats its own purpose even more than a burned steak.

    Based on the air seepage, yet indeed.

    @Nate

    @Gianni

    @fignons barber

    @unversio

    Compelled to buy Veloflex Arenberg 25c Tubular and Corsa 25c Open Tubular — soon. Hand Made in Italy.

    All I needed was one good idea to “branch out” from the usual — Contis.

    You may want to hold out for the new Veloflex Vlaanderen 27mm!

    Veloflex is now my go-to brand. I’ve used only Veloflex or Vittoria since the mid 1990’s. The thing I didn’t like about Veloflex was that they only made a 22mm, which was actually a 21mm. Then they made the pave marked 23mm,that was really 22mm. Now they have the corsa/master in 25mm, that is a 24mm. perfect. It’s been my experience that the corsa/master lasts at least 3x as long as the Vittoria corsa sc open, and the veloflex gets 1/4 the number of les crevaisons.

    I’ve been on the same pair of Veloflex Arenbergs since I set up a pair of tubulars, over a year ago. They measure at 25mm, I ride them around 6.9 bar (100 psi) and I’m a huge slow bastard, 90 kg. More tire pressure than that seems harsh. Also, climbing on wet roads and having the rear wheel slip a bit freaks me out thinking the tires will slip much worse coming back downhill, so I like to not put in too much pressure.

    Gianni, i am not as fat as you but I bet your Arenbergs would be perfectly happy at 90 if not 85 for more traction in the damp. You should try it out.

    This talk of 90kg and 85psi for regular road riding gives me the heebie-jeebies.

  28. @frank

    9 times out of 10, the rider in the group with a flat is one with the gator skins.

    Not to mention that they corner like utter shit.

  29. @frank

    @Nate

    @frank

    Did you manage to source a set of the latex tubed Ones? I have some 24s on my Shamals, they are a very nice tire. However I am given to understand that Schwalbe are now producing them with butyl tubes, which defeats its own purpose even more than a burned steak.

    Based on the air seepage, yet indeed.

    @Nate

    @Gianni

    @fignons barber

    @unversio

    Compelled to buy Veloflex Arenberg 25c Tubular and Corsa 25c Open Tubular — soon. Hand Made in Italy.

    All I needed was one good idea to “branch out” from the usual — Contis.

    You may want to hold out for the new Veloflex Vlaanderen 27mm!

    Veloflex is now my go-to brand. I’ve used only Veloflex or Vittoria since the mid 1990’s. The thing I didn’t like about Veloflex was that they only made a 22mm, which was actually a 21mm. Then they made the pave marked 23mm,that was really 22mm. Now they have the corsa/master in 25mm, that is a 24mm. perfect. It’s been my experience that the corsa/master lasts at least 3x as long as the Vittoria corsa sc open, and the veloflex gets 1/4 the number of les crevaisons.

    I’ve been on the same pair of Veloflex Arenbergs since I set up a pair of tubulars, over a year ago. They measure at 25mm, I ride them around 6.9 bar (100 psi) and I’m a huge slow bastard, 90 kg. More tire pressure than that seems harsh. Also, climbing on wet roads and having the rear wheel slip a bit freaks me out thinking the tires will slip much worse coming back downhill, so I like to not put in too much pressure.

    Gianni, i am not as fat as you but I bet your Arenbergs would be perfectly happy at 90 if not 85 for more traction in the damp. You should try it out.

    This talk of 90kg and 85psi for regular road riding gives me the heebie-jeebies.

    Sounds like you got the good Ones.

    90kg/85 psi might be a bit low but I would still encourage Gianni to let his pressure down into the 90s.

  30. @Mikael Liddy

    This.

    @all y’all’s

    Pontificating on PSI and/or recommending pressures without knowing the riders weight is like judging a riders bike fit from a photo of the bike leaning against a wall.

    In other words, it is insanity.

  31. @unversio

    @tessar

    Sounds like the properties of the rubber compound itself would be the largest factor with “grip” and transferring kinetic energy. And then how much surface area of the rubber compound is acting on the road — and the surface conditions of the road itself — and then how much “belief” is there that demands that any given tire is awesome — or that the tire simply sucks — and then there is the color of the tire too.

    Excellent, except that Gatorskins do actually suck. That’s not a “belief”. @Steampunk, you are wrong about the Gators, Pedalwan.

  32. I only have one thing to add to this. Clement LGG tubeless tubs. the concept is so mind-blowing that I had to try them on my first stint on tubulars. I can’t see a reason why they should work flawlessly.

  33. @frank

    @unversio

    @tessar

    Sounds like the properties of the rubber compound itself would be the largest factor with “grip” and transferring kinetic energy. And then how much surface area of the rubber compound is acting on the road — and the surface conditions of the road itself — and then how much “belief” is there that demands that any given tire is awesome — or that the tire simply sucks — and then there is the color of the tire too.

    Excellent, except that Gatorskins do actually suck. That’s not a “belief”. @Steampunk, you are wrong about the Gators, Pedalwan.

    But Emperor, I’ve already turned. You’re too late. I’ll trust in Veloflex like my father before me. [Deep inner voice ] “How the hell did Frank know I had Gatorskins on my Open Pros. Dang!”

  34. @RedRanger

    I only have one thing to add to this. Clement LGG tubeless tubs. the concept is so mind-blowing that I had to try them on my first stint on tubulars. I can’t see a reason why they should work flawlessly.

    I ride their tubeless tubs on my graveur; love them!

  35. @Nate

    To commit quickly, just purchased Veloflex Corsa 25 Open Tubular pair at 52% off — probikekit. And still interested in their upcoming 27mm.

  36. [ Father Sarducci voice ] “So… I’mma gonna need some latex tubas ??? Not like a brass hor’rna.”

  37. @unversio

    @Nate

    To commit quickly, just purchased Veloflex Corsa 25 Open Tubular pair at 52% off — probikekit. And still interested in their upcoming 27mm.

    You realize than “open tubular” is a euphemism for “clincher” I hope.

  38. @frank

    @RedRanger

    I only have one thing to add to this. Clement LGG tubeless tubs. the concept is so mind-blowing that I had to try them on my first stint on tubulars. I can’t see a reason why they should work flawlessly.

    I ride their tubeless tubs on my graveur; love them!

    Tubeless tubulars? Does not compute.  Either that, or I must unlearn what I have learned.

  39. @Nate

    @frank

    @RedRanger

    I only have one thing to add to this. Clement LGG tubeless tubs. the concept is so mind-blowing that I had to try them on my first stint on tubulars. I can’t see a reason why they should work flawlessly.

    I ride their tubeless tubs on my graveur; love them!

    Tubeless tubulars? Does not compute.  Either that, or I must unlearn what I have learned.

    Its exactly what it sounds like. Its a tubular that gets glued to the rim. its a sealed rubber tub. I added a bit of stans sealant through the valve stem for some extra protection.

  40. @RedRanger

    @Nate

    @frank

    @RedRanger

    I only have one thing to add to this. Clement LGG tubeless tubs. the concept is so mind-blowing that I had to try them on my first stint on tubulars. I can’t see a reason why they should work flawlessly.

    I ride their tubeless tubs on my graveur; love them!

    Tubeless tubulars? Does not compute.  Either that, or I must unlearn what I have learned.

    Its exactly what it sounds like. Its a tubular that gets glued to the rim. its a sealed rubber tub. I added a bit of stans sealant through the valve stem for some extra protection.

    I would not normally do that, but it is a good idea for this year’s Heck of the North.

    http://clementcycling.com/las-tubular

  41. @Teocalli

    @fenlander

    I tried tubeless for a while before going back to running tubes in the rims (Campag Shamal).  It seems to be very flinty where I ride and I kept getting punctures that would not seal so in the end I gave up on running tubeless.  I think the current sealants struggle at road tyre pressures.  I also ran Schwalbe Ones for a while.  Loved the ride but they did seem quite puncture prone and I ended up switching to Ultremo DD though currently running Open Pave.

    One thing about tubeless tyres I did find is that fitting and removing is an absolute bitch compared to clincher tyres.  So if you do puncture putting a tube in is not as easy as with a clincher tyre.  The Open Pave are a doddle in comparison.

    Agree. And I sold my tubeless wheel set and tires. Tubeless on road bikes? Nonsense. Mtn Bikes? Perfect.

  42. @Steampunk

    @Mikael Liddy

    HEDs invoking Neal Stephenson: you want to talk contact patches? I’m in touch with the road. Start like a bad day and stop on a peseta.

    Disagree on the Gatorskins: bullet-proof and grippy.

    Also: if you do clinchers (and I do), latex tubes. They’re like frilly knickers no one sees, but they make you feel good. But maybe I’m revealing too much…

    This post alone will have me finally trying latex. That’s funny. And of the bazillion or so wheel set/tire combos I’ve tried I’ve never bothered with latex figuring that seriously, an extra couple of bucks for a tube? That loses air? BUT, for frilly knickers ?!? And in pink too yes? As in pink frilly knickers? I have to try ’em now.

  43. I’m convinced that my pump consistently reads 15+psi lower than actual given the difference between the tire pressures @all y’all reference and what I use. And I say that w/no idea how much @all y’all weigh. Cheers y’all.

  44. @RedRanger

    @Nate

    @frank

    @RedRanger

    I only have one thing to add to this. Clement LGG tubeless tubs. the concept is so mind-blowing that I had to try them on my first stint on tubulars. I can’t see a reason why they should work flawlessly.

    I ride their tubeless tubs on my graveur; love them!

    Tubeless tubulars? Does not compute.  Either that, or I must unlearn what I have learned.

    Its exactly what it sounds like. Its a tubular that gets glued to the rim. its a sealed rubber tub. I added a bit of stans sealant through the valve stem for some extra protection.

    Sounds like the worst of both worlds. Sealed rubber tub = Rolling resistance nightmare. Might as well run sealed rubber clinchers, that way you don’t have to throw the thing away after a puncture.

  45. @wilburrox

    Agree. And I sold my tubeless wheel set and tires. Tubeless on road bikes? Nonsense. Mtn Bikes? Perfect.

    A couple of things though about tubeless rims with tubes 1) When you do puncture they deflate slower as the only way the air gets out is through the puncture 2) When deflated the tyre seems to be more secure than clincher as it stay seated on the shoulder profile.  Net even though I run tubes now I would still stick with the tubeless rims as I’m much less fearful of high speed punctures.

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