Reverence: Vittoria Open Pavé CG
Normally The Keepers reserve our Reverence articles for products we’ve used for years, or with new stuff that has had at least six months of duty. Riding the cobbles of Belgium and Northern France can put most gear (and bodies) through six months of abuse in just a few weeks, so in this case the work these tyres have been put through there and in the months since qualifies them for a deserved earlier dose of Reverence.
Selecting what gear to run for the Cobbled Classics Keepers Tour wasn’t too hard a task; there are some things which just go with cobbles bikes like double wrapped bartape, alloy steerer fork and of course box section rims laced 3 cross. Tubular or clincher was about the only tough decision I had to make. I managed to find a cheap pair of Ambrosio tub rims, but as they were 36 hole it proved impossible to find a cassette hub in time for the tour. How bad could clinchers be? After all, Freddy Guesdon won Roubaix on clinchers in 97, and the Pavé boys would have spare wheels if something went terribly awry. It wasn’t the cobbles that would claim my clinchers, but the ham-fisted rock apes generously referred to by airlines as baggage handlers.
Choosing a tyre to run was probably the easiest task. It had to be Vittoria’s Open Pavé CG‘s, based on what I’d seen gracing Pro’s bikes in just about every edition of the Spring Classics I’d witnessed. The distinctive green herringbone tread stripe is as synonymous with these races as are crazed fans, beer and frites en mayo. Unfortunately the ‘Open Tubular’ doesn’t come in the 28mm width of it’s tubular brethren, but a 24mm version only. That extra mm wasn’t a lot but it was something. The real benefit of the tyres though is the 320TPI casing, yeilding a super smooth ride on any surface. Coupled with Vittoria’s Latex inner tubes, the feel of cushioning under the bike is definitely noticeable. Over all of the 21 secteurs we rode on the way to Roubaix, then another 15 of the worst a few days later, topped with a full complement of Flandrian roads, I only once feared I might hear the dreaded hiss from my tyres. Nailing an edge of a nasty cobble hard enough to feel the rock hitting the rim, the tyre bounced off and the slippery latex tube stayed intact. On return to NZ, I inspected the tyres for damage and was surprised and delighted to find nary a nick or any signs of wear.
I’ve been riding the Pavés ever since the Tour, and don’t want to swap them out at least until the Kiwi winter is over. The ride continues to impress with their sheer suppleness (dare I say souplesse?) over rough surfaces. They aren’t the lightest or fastest rolling, but neither am I. For summer I think I’ll try the lighter Corsa Evo SC‘s, which look just as cool with their tan sidewalls and are another Pro favourite. And if you’re worried about a green stripe clashing with your bike’s paint job, I think there should be a Rule #8 ammendment that the only coloured tyre allowed on any bike, due to it’s unrivalled heritage, is the venerable and now ReVered Open Pavé CG.
Thanks to Graeme at Cycle Sport NZ for his generosity in supplying the tyres and tubes.
[dmalbum path=”/velominati.com/content/Photo Galleries/[email protected]/Open Pav/”/]
@frank
Could have been user error? Dude, that’s a Cat 5 seating job if ever I’ve seen one!
I did that once with a Slime tube and a service station compressor… wasn’t pretty, it looked like the Hulk had come all over me!
@frank
Might as well ride tubulars.
@Frank or anyone else, where are you getting your latex tubes?
@brett
Ha, yeah! I’m glad it was my own stupid fault, because it was too scary for it to be nice if it was chance. In 28 years, I’ve never had a blowout, so I was bound to get overconfident about it eventually. Never checked it after seating.
Oh, and just for Oli and Minion’s sake, I’ll explicity point out that I’m agreeing with you. Seems to be a bit confusing these days.
@RedRanger
I get mine at Speedy Reedy.
@Nate
Word up on that one. First thing I said to @sgt (I was riding with him yesterday, class act of a dude) was that if it was tubs it would have just been an inconvenience, but with clinchers it took a some work to stay upright.
Sidenote: it’s probably been 5 years since I listened to Led Zep IV front-to-back. What a fucking awesome record. Didn’t that album get a two-word review?
So would you recommend latex? Only place I see them on the web is Amazon and they are running 15$ a pop.
@Xyverz
I can sympathize with that, but not for now. I’m still tweaking the formatting of the output, but I’m trying to avoid the case where I wind up spending hours editing peoples posts because they got the formatting screwed up and didn’t close/open tags. I might enable source editing, but not for now – not until I get the output the way I want it.
Hopefully, if I get this working correctly, nothing should need any manual tweaking anyway. Of course, if you like editing the source, you can just use Internet Explorer because I disabled it for IE in favor of spending the next four months debugging it. With this being a site about authenticity and quality, I’m basically giving IE the Internet Middle Finger and just working on it enough to have the site function but that’s it. I’ve spent too much time of my life getting shit that works everywhere else to work in that fucking browser.
@RedRanger
That price seems right. The ride quality is superb, that’s for sure. I’ve had good luck with Vittoria’s but the Michellin’s have been less stable.
I haven’t decided yet if I recommend them – it’s kind of like riding tubbies; ride quality is definitely better, but each flat at $15 is painful on the wallet, so you have to decide if the extra hassle/cost is worth it to you. Also note that to my knowledge, tube patches don’t work as well on them, if at all.
Personally, I’m still riding latex on #1 and #2, but stopped using them on #3 because I’m more likely to flat on that bike and don’t want to hassle with the cost.
@RedRanger
I’d heartily recommend them. The ride is smooooth, sometimes I think I’ve got a puncture in the front when it feels too soft (I run them at 115psi). I also run 23mm Vittoria Rubino Pro tyres but I think they only have a thread count of 120 so I’m wondering how much difference the 320 thread count Open Corsas whould be. Anyone?
@RedRanger
I found some by way of shopping.google.com for $9-10 about a month ago.
@frank
Glad you and @sgt have finally connected. All class. Bring your tubulars for the Cogal.
I like them, and would echo the smoothness (I’d make a comment about not having punctured, but I don’t want to damn myself to some massive blowout on my next ride). I run them at 100psi, but that’s with Vredestein Fortezza tires (25mm), which I also like very much. I’ve wondered a bit about their porousness, however, and whether they risk going too low over the course of longer rides (inflating before each ride, I’m amazed that they’re always down below 60psi after just 24 hours). I understand, though, that the softer latex tubes are less prone to puncturing than butyl. I got mine at La Bicicletta in Toronto, but have seen them at various online sites as well…
@frank
ROFL, love the pie-chart graphic! That’s so true. I don’t design for IE anymore. If it don’t look right in AIEEEEEE, I tell ’em to use Firefox. =)
@brett
That my friend is the funniest line I have read in quite some time. Beauty. It deserves wider exposure.
I’ve been using a tubeless tire/cafe latex sealant of late and finally experienced a puncture. Also a little orgasmic messy scene. Sealant spraying out like a cub scout circle jerk (see, not as funny) but it sealed, and it rained, so I was was rolling on a good front wheel and all rinsed off. End of story.
@Steampunk
Most good tubbies all have latex inner tubes as well. The practice is to expect your tubes to be about a bar lower at the end of an 8 hour ride; so at Roubaix they start a little higher so that by the time they hit the pavé, the pressure is exactly where they want it – and with some of the roughest secteurs coming at the end it works out. Farrar said he started at 6 so they’d be at about 5.5 when the cobbles started to hurt and 5 for the finale.
@Xyverz
The credit on the graphic is my favorite bit of it.
I’m still running the (grey) Vredestein Fortezzas the Ridley came with. Done 1,200km’s and the rear is now slick and a few nicks are appearing in the sidewall rubber. I run them at 155psi (as per the instructions) and (so far) they’ve worked very well considering the shocking state of our roads (sharp chipseal and badly fixed potholes).
On previous tyres I took the view that as long as it was only a sidewall nick to the rubber, the carcass wasn’t deformed and the threads were untouched then the tyre was safe and good for a few more runs.
Any thoughts? And is there any point in using nail varnish to seal the cut (clear obviously)?
Also they hold 155 psi for a week’s worth of riding.
Back on subject – I’m bummed out that Vittoria decided to move to the design with one green band down the center fo the tires, rather than the badass dual stripe from previous models.
Hushovd has the old version, and Boonen has the new ones. Seeing Boonen look like a startled goose really pulls out the fact that he was a complete badass this year.
@the Engine
155psi is the maximum, surely? That’s pretty high – I can’t think of a road tyre I’d run at more than 120psi, and I’m 100kg.
@Gianni
I too have been received a few Campa Money Shots (this could go on all day) courtesy of my Shamal 2 Ways (the name of which opens up a whole new raft of lexi options). A few have allowed me to keep riding as the tyre re-sealed itself after spraying me – but I have had three separate incidents over the space of a few months where my Hutchinson Fusions took a bad enough cut that the tyre was fucked. Could get home by inserting a five dollar note and a tube (which requires hands of steel – which I dont have) but it was enough for me to only go for the heavy duty Hutchinsons (no troubles with them) and question the whole efficacy of tubeless tyres…
@Oli
160’s the max but the manufacturer recommends 145 as the minimum. I’m 100 – 105kgs depending on what I had for lunch.
@Oli
I was thinking the same thing.
@frank
One bar lower after an 8-hour ride; that stands to equal 1.5 bar by the end of the Vermont Cogal. Too much?
@the Engine
I’ve run Vreds and when I first got them I didn’t know better and followed their crazy pressure recs. The “roadfeel” nearly destroyed my kidneys. Then I came to my senses and ran ’em around 105. Much better.
@Steampunk
Not if you pump them up a bit beforehand. Start higher than usual. Simple stuff, really. I’m spinning a theory about tire pressure which I’ll later write about loudly and authoritatively, but for now, I’d say that if Boonen started P-R with latex tubes (which he did) at 6.6 bar (which he did) and finished without a single flat (which he did) then you’ll be fine on your buttery tarmac for the 16 hours it will take your fat ass to ride the course.
A startled goose! Ha, I know exactly what those look like…
Damn, those Zipps with the tan sidewalls – modern + retro. Fuckin’ boss.
Is anyone riding the Zipp Firecrests yet? Seem like pretty rad wheels.
@frank
Natch. I mean, I’d gotten that far. I was working, rather, from the premise of where I was starting and where I would stand to finish. The alternative, of course, is to inflate at a stop around midway, but I’d rather not have to do that.
The fewer comments you make about my buttery fat ass the happier I’ll be…
@the Engine
My Fortezzas call for a minimum of 140psi, but that seems exceptionally high to me. At 75-80kg, I’m running them at 100 and could probably go a good bit lower (I have 25mm tires). Methinks those minimums are a bit like the nipple valves and pie plate: they’re legalese in order to avoid liability.
@Steampunk
Which begs the question – why so high? Increases the risk of the tire blowing out. It all folds in nicely into my theory of tire pressures.
Oli’s sure to hate it. So are most of you. Can’t. Fucking. Wait.
Buttery ass buttery ass buttery ass.
@Ron
DAMN. FUCKIN’. STRAIGHT.
I think Angin-San has them. They are awesome, but next Zipps that roll into Fort Awesome (my house) are tubbies.
@fran Drescher
I think there was a lot else going on there, don’t Zupp claim their fc wheels act like a leaf spring, with a certain amount of give? And since the type of flat Boonen would be liable for would be pinch flats, the wider bed for the tubular, as well as the fact he’s on tubs rather than clinchers, would all contribute to the avoid-pinch-flats theory.
Of course pressure’s a factor as well, but he could have run tubs with Butyl inners and avoided pinch flats. Or he could have cranked the pressure in his set up up to 200 and blown out sitting still.
@minion
Zupp = knockoff Chinese Zipps some Aussie pawned off on you, surely?
Nup, that’s Zipp pronounced with a Kiwi accent, the veiny english git Bretto and I used to work with got the biggest kick out of the NZ accent. I used to go to work in New Zealand and have to hang out with a fricken pom, an Aussie and a Tongan bike mechanic. Like the UN on bikes.
Is it odd that I get carbone over a set of Reynolds aero wheels? I just never hear anyone talking about em.
The VMH just asked what I was reading…Hulk jizz, latex blow outs, and fat buttery asses…you all are on FIRE today!
@the Engine
“I run them at 155psi (as per the instructions) and (so far) they’ve worked very well considering the shocking state of our roads”
That’s crazy talk! I’d say that’s waaaaay too high. I’m a big fella as keep my 25mm tyres below 100psi, the old 23mm maybe 105 to 110. Lower pressure=faster rolling, better cornering, more comfy
I’m with Gianni on this one, I’m running the Vred’s on Velocity a23’s with latex tubes and I’ll pump mine up to 100psi at the max. So when you count discharge pressure loss they’re round about 90-95psi. Buttery.
@frank That graphic is spot on, I’ll tell you on Saturday about my client who wanted a responsive website that works in IE6
@urbanwhitetrash
That sentence right there is worth a whole topic at the Apple WWDC. I’m actually working on a responsive design for Velominati right now and it relies on browsers not sucking. Which is part of the reason I’m pushing out things like the new posting box now – so that the updates that come out with the new site design with be purely cosmetic and not include functional changes.
I’ll be the first to admit: MS is great at office products and the Visual Studio (or TFS) is the best dev suite around. But stick to what you’re good at; their browser, OS, and Version Control sucks ass. (Incidentally, I worked at MS for a while and the only tools they used were the Office, OS, and dev tools, the rest, they used 3-party stuff – including version control – which was OPEN SOURCE, believe it or not.)
I myself and the companies I’ve worked for have dumped more money into IE than anything else. IE should be considered its own technology stack; not a browser. To MS’s credit, though, they are working on it and have a whole “interop” team devoted to making their tools play nicer with everyone else. We’ll see. IE9 is not a promising step in that direction.
It goes back to what @sgt was talking to me about yesterday – the Law of Comparative Advantage. MS is good at some things. Terrible at (most) others. Stick at what you’re good at. Apple, who I hold in high regard, is also good at certain things and not others, and they should stick to the good stuff and ignore the bad shit.
So should I, by the way. Enough with the writing and posting, or riding of bikes. Guess I’ll stick to drinking. Like Brett – he’s good at sitting around and having a purdy mouth. Not much else. We should stick to what we’re good at.
@minion
There is no question in my mind that you are the smartest person on this site.
Sorry everyone else. That’s as troubling a conclusion for me as it is for you.
My best friend’s last name is Drescher, so its not as bit an insult as you think, by the way.
As far as Zipps wheels – they are very vertically compliant, but the most amazing thing about them is I have more trouble with my Ksyriums in winds than I do my Zipp 404’s. The Zipps are fucking awesome wheels.
@Gianni
That’s crazy talk too! But I don’t want to give away my story. But you’re fucking crazy to ride at below 100psi, unless you’re on the cobbles or comparatively rough terrain or you’re afraid of bruising your vulva. (If you have a vulva, you should be afraid of bruising it, by the way, and run low tire pressure. Everyone knows this. I’m just surprised that Gianni has one. That’s all.)
@Marcus
Not rising to that bait. Nice try.
@minion
More like the Commonwealth? Can’t imagine that Victorian we-own-the-world mentality trickled all the way down to your Kiwi upbringing?
@frank
Stop teasing us with these promises of upcoming articles. Let the games begin::
Bullshit overgeneralization. Maybe if you weight 80+ kg, but I often run below 90. In fact, just today PRd the two most technical descents I hit on a regular basis running 90/95. Well, maybe that actually proves your point, but I was carving it up out there.
@Nate
You know what sucks? When your tire blows out when you’re trying to PR your descents.
I’m just doing my duty to butter you up to be prepared to cut me to bits. You hated my Anti-V bit back January? Get ready, buddy. The worst part – and you’ll really have to get ready for this: you’ll wind up agreeing with me. Not right away. Not the next week. Maybe not even the next millenia. But eventually, you will. And I’ll be patiently waiting. With a drink. Its comfortable here.
@frank
Awww fuck yeah. Not only am I currently winning the TDS VSP, Drunk Scaler wants to hang out with me, and now Frank Schleck wants to have my internet love children. The only way to top that is Marcus asking me to marry him after he sets fire to his passport and moves to Invercargil.
I’m thinking of a BS marketing video from the Zipp website showing the amount of “vertical compliance” in FC shaped rims over V shaped rims.
@frank
This will be fun — I’ll have to go back and revisit the Anti-V article, because I don’t remember it.
And if you are running tubulars, it’s likely to be a pain if you puncture on a descent. But it probably won’t suck, because this isn’t how it will pan out:
@minion
And you know what else? After I spent every minute of my free time between Sunday and today working on the new “fool proof” posting box that would cost me “so much less time editing people’s posts” you go and fuck the whole thing up like a fucking prostitute at fucking bible camp.
Eddy Fucking Merckx, mate.
Oh, and you’re welcome for fixing your shit again, and congrats on figuring out in 5 minutes what I couldn’t do in 147 hours: break the blockquote idiot-seal. That goat must be giving you an awesome hummer.
I did think that would punctuate the point you made quite nicely.
If you’ve ever heard the phrase, ignorance is bliss, you’ll have an inkling of my current state. i fucking hate computers and I have little to no idea what you’re talking about.
PS if you think that took me five minutes you’d probably be wrong. Idiocy can strike like lightening.
But everything seems fine to me at 155psi.
Then again I don’t know any better and I’m even worse at descending that I am going up.
Tell you what – I’ll run the Trossachs Ton at 155psi this weekend – because I’m used to it and I don’t want to make a radical change in things before the event. Next week however I’ll run at whatever the consensus pressure of the Velominati is (120?) over my regular routes and compare times.
You’ve got me thinking though – my current back problem. I’ve been whining about it on here for three weeks and is something to do with inflammation of the nerve at L3 leading to a serious amount of pain in my left leg and numbness on my thigh which in turn means that I can’t walk but I can ride a bike (the pain just vanishes). There’s no tissue damage/disk herniation – it seems to be “one of those things” although I’ve stopped all gardening, DIY and housework as a precautionary measure.
Could it be related to the tyre pressure/rough road combo with the new Carbone?
And before I finally start working for a living today – at 155psi is there a risk on a Pyrenean descent of the tyre cooking off if I use my usual descending style of braking too much?
@frank
So last night after watching the TdS Bully Boy Sagan sprinting into the barriers and still winning, I thought, I’m fucked, time for bed – so I duly got my bike out and switched her tyres What a transformation – confirms the point Fronk is making about the green stripe – it just doesn’t look right – I may be about to propose that a new Rule should include the compulsory use of tan sidewalls and black treads The new clinchers look Fawesome, shall post a pic later, and seem sticky as hell, though I have no thumbs left, as those kevlar beads have ZERO give in them – not looking forward to my first flat – that said, I can’t see them rolling off the rim either – Veloflex Master 22s – yum….